Frozen Extractor, can't see into chamber - Page 2

DavidJayUden · 05-18-2013, 05:48 PM

Once again after triple checking that the gun is empty:
The rear toggle pin only goes out from right towards the left side looking down on the gun.
Let's let it soak a bit longer, overnight perhaps.
Then I would take a short piece of wood like a 2x4 and drill a hole, maybe 3/8" diameter and about an inch deep. You will lie the left side of the barrel extension assy. flat on the block and very carefully use a brass punch to drive the toggle pin from the right side out of the left. Place it on the wood so that the pin will go down into the hole that you drilled. Be careful and don't go all brutal on it.
A bit of heat from a hair dryer style heat gun may help too, but it will make the part hot and harder to handle. Also you could apply some heat and they re-emerge the gun in the penetrant soak. (Those heat guns are quite inexpensive at your local Harbor Freight type of tool store. ) Actually, heating the stuck parts and then re-soaking the gun (without grips of course), may be the solution to your problems.
Again, soak it in a good penetrant, dry it well and apply a bit of heat (no flames), use a brass drift pin punch, support the part well on wood, and tap right to left.
Be careful and remember that the damage you do can not be undone.
Another option I should mention is to slap a stamp on it and send it to the LugerDoc.
If you have any questions or doubts, please stop and post your concerns. Do not rush or feel like you have to get it apart now. Patience.
dju

mrerick · 05-18-2013, 07:09 PM

Instead of a metal pin to drive out the rear axle pin, consider using a bamboo chop stick. These have reasonable linear strength, and are not likely to damage anything. If it takes more force than this, there is something else holding it in.

If you have made sure it isn't loaded:

With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, see if you can relieve the firing pin spring tension by pushing in on the front of the sear.

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 05-18-2013, 07:15 PM

Now i can't get the toggle pin out..It pushes out right to left with the muzzle downrange.

Newmanos · 05-19-2013, 09:35 AM

I got the upper off and soaked it. I'm happy to report i was able to free it up and get the toggles up to see into the chamber which was empty. I was gunked up, didn't look like rust more like hardened grease. I couldn't get the toggle pin out though to get the rest of the upper apart to clean. should i soak it again and hope that loosens up too? I didn't want to be banging on it with a screwdriver. So far every part i was able to views numbers matched. thanks again for all your help. I have field stripped quite a bit of guns in the past but never one of these.

DavidJayUden · 05-19-2013, 10:29 AM

Congratulations! Sounds like you have done a good job!
Regarding getting that pin out, I'd continue to soak it and forget the brutal stuff now that you have the toggles moving. You can get a lot done with it as is and there is no sense risking damage.
If you search YouTube you will find lots of videos regarding Luger disassembly.
Some old gun oils would dry hard like that, it has been said that old WE-40 would do that.
Please continue to exercise patience.
dju

Curly1 · 05-19-2013, 05:25 PM

You could also try soaking in Kroil oil.

Vlim · 05-19-2013, 05:47 PM

Well, nothing is keeping that (rear) toggle pin in place, other than crud. So with a proper punch and some well aimed blows, it should pop right out.

Try removing it with the toggle all the way opened. When the toggle is closed, it can create some pressure on the pin, making it harder to remove it.

rhuff · 05-19-2013, 07:29 PM

From personal experience, I can guarantee you the old WD-40 will turn to glue!!! I had it happen and it took a rubber hammer and a few foul words to get a Ruger 44Mag carbine apart.....never again!!

ithacaartist · 05-20-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

If you search YouTube you will find lots of videos regarding Luger disassembly.
dju

Be careful with exactly which video you watch! Not too long ago, someone posted a link to a video of a couple of clowns who were persuading a rusted P.08 to come apart. Techniques such as pounding on the nose of the live round in the chamber with a dowel to move the breech block back, and throwing said live round into their wood stove after it was extracted, well, let's say we were kinda shocked/horrified by watching this one.

sheepherder · 05-20-2013, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Be careful with exactly which video you watch! Not too long ago, someone posted a link to a video of a couple of clowns who were persuading a rusted P.08 to come apart. Techniques such as pounding on the nose of the live round in the chamber with a dowel to move the breech block back, and throwing said live round into their wood stove after it was extracted, well, let's say we were kinda shocked/horrified by watching this one.

There was also an article in American Rifleman a year or so ago with [coff, coff] 'misleading' field stripping information...

rhuff · 05-20-2013, 04:00 PM

I saw that article in American Rifleman, and "called their hand on it". I never heard a word back from them as to their mis-information to their readers.

Newmanos · 05-27-2013, 12:00 PM

I let it soak for another day and it toggle pin came out and I ended up getting it completely apart. I cleaned it all up, oiled it and put it all back together. I dry fired it a couple times and it clicked like it should. Probably will never shoot it though, don't want to risk damage since all the numbers match minus the 2 mags. thanks again for everyone's help! It's G Dated low serial number so I am assuming it's a 1935.

DavidJayUden · 05-27-2013, 01:34 PM

Congratulations, and it soulds like your patience was rewarded.
dju

05-18-2013, 07:09 PM	#22
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Instead of a metal pin to drive out the rear axle pin, consider using a bamboo chop stick. These have reasonable linear strength, and are not likely to damage anything. If it takes more force than this, there is something else holding it in. If you have made sure it isn't loaded: With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, see if you can relieve the firing pin spring tension by pushing in on the front of the sear. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-18-2013, 07:15 PM	#23
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Now i can't get the toggle pin out..It pushes out right to left with the muzzle downrange. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-19-2013, 05:25 PM	#26
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,244 Thanks: 125 Thanked 715 Times in 372 Posts	You could also try soaking in Kroil oil. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

05-18-2013, 05:48 PM	#21
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Once again after triple checking that the gun is empty: The rear toggle pin only goes out from right towards the left side looking down on the gun. Let's let it soak a bit longer, overnight perhaps. Then I would take a short piece of wood like a 2x4 and drill a hole, maybe 3/8" diameter and about an inch deep. You will lie the left side of the barrel extension assy. flat on the block and very carefully use a brass punch to drive the toggle pin from the right side out of the left. Place it on the wood so that the pin will go down into the hole that you drilled. Be careful and don't go all brutal on it. A bit of heat from a hair dryer style heat gun may help too, but it will make the part hot and harder to handle. Also you could apply some heat and they re-emerge the gun in the penetrant soak. (Those heat guns are quite inexpensive at your local Harbor Freight type of tool store. ) Actually, heating the stuck parts and then re-soaking the gun (without grips of course), may be the solution to your problems. Again, soak it in a good penetrant, dry it well and apply a bit of heat (no flames), use a brass drift pin punch, support the part well on wood, and tap right to left. Be careful and remember that the damage you do can not be undone. Another option I should mention is to slap a stamp on it and send it to the LugerDoc. If you have any questions or doubts, please stop and post your concerns. Do not rush or feel like you have to get it apart now. Patience. dju

05-19-2013, 09:35 AM	#24
Newmanos User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 13 Thanks: 22 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I got the upper off and soaked it. I'm happy to report i was able to free it up and get the toggles up to see into the chamber which was empty. I was gunked up, didn't look like rust more like hardened grease. I couldn't get the toggle pin out though to get the rest of the upper apart to clean. should i soak it again and hope that loosens up too? I didn't want to be banging on it with a screwdriver. So far every part i was able to views numbers matched. thanks again for all your help. I have field stripped quite a bit of guns in the past but never one of these.

05-19-2013, 10:29 AM	#25
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Congratulations! Sounds like you have done a good job! Regarding getting that pin out, I'd continue to soak it and forget the brutal stuff now that you have the toggles moving. You can get a lot done with it as is and there is no sense risking damage. If you search YouTube you will find lots of videos regarding Luger disassembly. Some old gun oils would dry hard like that, it has been said that old WE-40 would do that. Please continue to exercise patience. dju

05-19-2013, 05:47 PM	#27
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Well, nothing is keeping that (rear) toggle pin in place, other than crud. So with a proper punch and some well aimed blows, it should pop right out. Try removing it with the toggle all the way opened. When the toggle is closed, it can create some pressure on the pin, making it harder to remove it.

05-19-2013, 07:29 PM	#28
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	From personal experience, I can guarantee you the old WD-40 will turn to glue!!! I had it happen and it took a rubber hammer and a few foul words to get a Ruger 44Mag carbine apart.....never again!!

05-20-2013, 04:00 PM	#31
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	I saw that article in American Rifleman, and "called their hand on it". I never heard a word back from them as to their mis-information to their readers.

05-27-2013, 12:00 PM	#32
Newmanos User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 13 Thanks: 22 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I let it soak for another day and it toggle pin came out and I ended up getting it completely apart. I cleaned it all up, oiled it and put it all back together. I dry fired it a couple times and it clicked like it should. Probably will never shoot it though, don't want to risk damage since all the numbers match minus the 2 mags. thanks again for everyone's help! It's G Dated low serial number so I am assuming it's a 1935.

05-27-2013, 01:34 PM	#33
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Congratulations, and it soulds like your patience was rewarded. dju