CMR Luger Rig from England.?

[Vlim]

The holsters are nicely made, are dimensionally correct and are made of a good quality leather. I used the CMR LP08 holster and stock for some shooting tests, wanting to preserve the original stock and leather.

I also got their Finnish M23 holster, because I was curious about the usability of short P08 holster combined with a loose stock. Quality is good, and the Finnish stock especially was made from a very nice piece of wood.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I have had many CMR holsters in the shop over the years and have written my opinion on them many times. Many have come in to have the tops lengthened as the pistol would not fit into the holster and the only way to MAKE it fit is to make a longer top.
If CMR would provide accurate information to the makers in Pakistan it would help. The small details they ignore...if quality control were tightened up I think they could produce a pretty decent holster for what is a very cheap price. As it is they just make stupid errors.
The quality of the leather seems pretty good although their tanning methods leave most of the products I have seen in the past very stiff. Also they have used leather that was WAY too thick. They use cotton thread instead of linen.
There are many little details a guy can nitpick apon but in general their product seems to be worth about what they charge for it although shipping from England ain't cheap!
As Harry so correctly states CMR makes a poor stock iron. It needs about 5 hours of tedious hand work to even come close to fitting. Again..a small detail but not something CMR cares to disclose to their buyers.
They make a huge array of items that are desirable to collectors and I have not seen it all. What I have seen I have not been overly impressed with but these things do fill a niche in the collecting world.
Just approach their items with some caution and remember that even though there is a return policy I think..shipping back to England could surpass the value of the item!
I have always said if a reproduction item could approximate the original for quality and fit it would appeal to me but so far few items do...and CMR is not a Company I look to to fulfill my wish list.
One caveat after reading others experiences with CMR..it is likely their quality control is so poor that SOME of their items MAY be correct from time to time but for the most part I wouldn't depend on that being what you recieve.

[Vlim]

As said, I had no problems with the size of the holsters. Fit the LP08 like a glove, magazines fit nicely in the magazine pouch, etc...

No problems with the stock irons either. So either I was lucky and received good products, or the quality of the CMR products is somewhat undervalued.

[sheepherder]

I think we have to keep in mind that Pakistan does not have mechanically advanced industries...

[mlmahon]

But they DO have a nuclear weapon. I wonder if they used the above rig to make it.

-ML

[lugerholsterrepair]

Rich, I think you might be surprised at what an industrious craftsman can make with what seems like inferior equiptment.

[Vlim]

All joking aside, there is not a shred of evidence that the CMR holsters are being made in India, Pakistan or in fact any third world country.

Perhaps it is time to invite CMR to tell where they have their holsters made?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gerben, The shred of evidence can be found in plain sight. The price asked for CMR holsters tells you they are made in a country that pays VERY little for labor and materials. If you surmise that Roscoe keystones his items..he would pay half what he is asking retail to purchase them. That price CANNOT be found in any modern industrialized nation on earth. So, that leaves very few countries to choose from that are capable of this kind of leather manufacture.
Pakistan is #1 on my list..then India, China.

I doubt very seriously if the Gentleman who owns CMR will voluntarily tell you where he has them made but you can try!

[Vlim]

I'm thinking more about Eastern-Europe, or China, really.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gerben, China is certainly a possibility..These products from what I have seen don't look Chinese to me...

One other thing to consider is the reproduction Dutch holster now on eBay..The seller says he is having them reproduced in India.. They are pretty decent looking and a complicated holster to make with all the little metal parts.

[sheepherder]

There is a rather short thread on Still's Forum about a repro Dutch Luger holster...Seems to be a sequel to an earlier thread/discussion, with opposing views...

Anyway, there was a link to an eBay auction of the repro, which contained this comment in the description -

"Made in high quality steerhide, not from stray dogs like most of the cheap holsters available these days."

...Uh...SAY WHAT???...

http://cgi.ebay.com/230633019837?ru=...3D230633019837

[Vlim]

Well, you have to look at reproductions for what they are, and look at the value for money.

In a way it is good that they can easily be recognized as such. It won't be easy to pass them off as original, which is a bonus.

I mainly use reproductions to test the concept of the design, whilst avoiding possible damage to originals. So I am happy to receive a functional item which is dimensionally correct at a decent price. all that has been supplied to me by CMR in the past.

From what can be made out from the photos, the Dutch copy looks good to me.

[Norme]

Here is an example of a really bad reproduction, advertised as "genuine" on Ebay. Regards, Norm
http://cgi.ebay.com/Genuine-WWII-Ger...#ht_500wt_1102

[lugerholsterrepair]

Norm, What's funny about the GENUINE 1941 holster on eBay is... it's made in the ww1 style! A really sad piece of work.

[Vlim]

Somehow this thread seems to derail everytime. Please let's stay on topic and try to stay away from the 'funny' remarks. As some already tried to explain (thanks guys), it's not always clear when one is joking, insulting, or 'trolling'.

[Rick W.]

I have seen one example of the CMR leather for a Luger, not mine. It was not the cats, but was fine for the money. Plenty durable, some would say fair to good value for the money spent.

With originals priced at collectors numbers, most holsters/stocks are out of reach of most. Lots of funny money in some of these for lots of reasons, but not into such FM discussions anymore.

Are they as good as the originals? probably not to some; but to some will fill their needs for money they can expend. I have seen $500+++ Luger holsters made up(7 shot type) that is hard to see the value myself, but to others tis fine. No real problem with that.

The board stock I believe comes with oversized iron, just because of the need to be fitted to a hand built pistol. I seem to recall that the Lugers were all handbuilt/fitted/tuned. One would wonder about originals being traded about, and the relative fit on various pieces. My Artillery wood, numbered etc(wow for me huh) does not fit on any other Luger that I own. Just a single example, not a true trial by any means. I think if I would buy an iron/wood for a Luger or Navy, it would have to be oversized for my fitting; or physically tried on said piece. Ever try to buy vintage or new piece parts for the iron? Never have, never hope to. Fitting an iron is not rocket science or overly difficult.

All in all, I cannot harp on the CMR offerings; I cannot make such for their prices, is there another source other than super expensive originals? One gets what they pay for, but there is always another side of the coin to consider such as basic requirement definitions for ones own needs/atmosphere.

[Kitkat041836]

The Odin Navy stock and the Odin Artillery stock that were made about 30 years ago fit very nice but are hard to find
now. The iron on them went on with very little fitting.
That has been what I have found. I think they were made in Spain.
Thanks George

[calibrator]

++1 for the Odin stocks. I found one after purchasing the CMR rig (it fit great ) and selling the CMR stock quickly. I actually talked to Mr. Roscoe when I ordered mine and asked if he could actually put an LP 08 in the holster he sent me, as the Paki one I got from Sarco was laughably tight and I was lucky I was able to get my mag back out of their pouch without plier damage. Mr. Roscoe made a comment that suggested that his leather was being made by a company whose roots were experienced with ... ??? Anyhow, one thing I've found is if your stock is a bit loose, cut a slice of a business card the width of the lug and insert it between the stock and the pistol upon mating. It will make ALOT of difference and will stay inplace if you make it longer so there are little tabs to be bent over the stock iron. YMMV Joe

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Somehow this thread seems to derail everytime....it's not always clear when one is joking, insulting, or 'trolling'.

Not sure if that was intended for me, but the link to the Dutch holster was because the seller had made the statement that others were making their repros from stray dogs...

I know that Air Force flight jackets are made from horsehide (I have two), and my Bundeswehr Luftwaffe flight jacket is made from pigskin, but this was the first I'd heard of leathermakers using dog hide...

I think both the Dutch holster (the repro) and the CMR holsters look pretty good...and IMO the price is reasonable...

[hgreer2]

Originally Posted by postino

Not sure if that was intended for me, but the link to the Dutch holster was because the seller had made the statement that others were making their repros from stray dogs...

I know that Air Force flight jackets are made from horsehide (I have two), and my Bundeswehr Luftwaffe flight jacket is made from pigskin, but this was the first I'd heard of leathermakers using dog hide...

I think both the Dutch holster (the repro) and the CMR holsters look pretty good...and IMO the price is reasonable...

Not you, me, I attemped to make a joke that some didn't find the least bit funny even though I put a ROTFLMAO smiley after my post it was still misunderstood, I guess we need a lesson on what smileys mean. I am beginning to wonder if humor is not appreciated here, why do we bother to have smileys. In the future I will be serious or be quiet. Please pardon yet another discretion on my part. To those of you with no sense of humor, I truly pity you.

Harry