Please help ID this Luger - Page 2

aldo35 · 03-21-2015, 11:38 AM

What does BKIW stand for?
Aldo35

Ron Wood · 03-21-2015, 12:22 PM

Berlin Karlsruher Industrie Werke. That is what DWM transitioned to after WWI. BKIW still used the DWM trademark on the Luger toggle.

cirelaw · 03-21-2015, 01:45 PM

Great Close Up pics!

SoftwarePerson · 03-21-2015, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

That was one expensive gun rug...
dju

FWIW, it was $15 for the gun rug back then, well made as I still have it. I thought the guy at the gun show was a bit eager to make the trade, but at the time the spare magazine had little value to me. With all the moves I made in forty years, I am a bit surprised I still have the holster and that the holster is in such great shape.

SoftwarePerson · 03-21-2015, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

It is a good thing to have something like this insured. There are forum members with the specific knowledge and experience needed to establish its value for these purposes.

How do I go about doing that?

SoftwarePerson · 03-21-2015, 10:11 PM

How does my gun compare to this one:

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/64/lid/3372

I noticed it has the same proof mark as my gun.

JTD · 03-22-2015, 08:57 AM

Same variation. With that said, I think it will not, or barely, make their low estimate. I would not use their estimate as a price guide just yet. Then again....... one never knows. John

SoftwarePerson · 03-22-2015, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The chances of leaving a mark are low. The extractor pin will almost always come out with simple hand pressure. Make sure to hold the extractor down with your thumb to make it easier. The pin area cannot be seen when the pistol is assembled, anyhow.

How easy or hard is it to remove and replace the safety bar?

alanint · 03-22-2015, 02:08 PM

Once you lift and slide out the leaf spring, which holds the bar in, the safety bar can simply be levered out of the upper frame.

SoftwarePerson · 03-22-2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Once you lift and slide out the leaf spring, which holds the bar in, the safety bar can simply be levered out of the upper frame.

Thanks.

I will have to study the gun to make sure I understand "slide out the leaf spring". Is there a specific name for the part? I attached a list of parts.

Also, for someone who knows what they are doing, how long would it takes to disassemble a Luger to replace the extractor, complete firing pin assembly, and safety bar, then reassemble the Luger?

Which then leads to how safe would it be to shoot the gun after those modifications?

JTD · 03-22-2015, 04:05 PM

Dan, I believe aliant is talking about the sear bar. what is your goal here? Is it to replace all common breakage parts to shoot it?
If so, I would not do that either, but get a shooter grade gun. The piece that breaks will never be the one you replaced!!! Your luger is a good collectable luger, playing with swapping parts will do it no good at best, and harm at worst. These things were hand fit. John

SoftwarePerson · 03-22-2015, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTD

Dan, I believe aliant is talking about the sear bar. what is your goal here? Is it to replace all common breakage parts to shoot it?
If so, I would not do that either, but get a shooter grade gun. The piece that breaks will never be the one you replaced!!! Your luger is a good collectable luger, playing with swapping parts will do it no good at best, and harm at worst. These things were hand fit. John

I do not want to shoot my gun again, but I might need to confirm it is still safe to shoot. An issue exists that someone else might have replaced parts without my permission, so I want to know in what time frame that would be possible before the gun was returned to me.

ithacaartist · 03-22-2015, 05:32 PM

I'd say around a half hour, tops, to swap the parts you've described. This presumes basic familiarity with the process, and a bit of mechanical ability and sense. It is not very difficult. If, by "safety bar", you mean the dealie that blocks the sear when the safety lever is turned to the "safe" position, you'd need to tap out, from above, the retaining pin for the safety lever itself. With this removed, and the lever lifted out of the way, the bar is free to slide out of the frame.

Just ask what the value range is, and you'll get responses here. I think a consensus on the forum is better at valuing a gun compared to just any random "gun dealer". I'd throw you a figure, but there are others that know better what it is worth.

Ron Wood · 03-22-2015, 06:37 PM

Lets see if we can all get on the same page.

SoftwarePerson · 03-22-2015, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Lets see if we can all get on the same page.

I am no expert.

I was going by the Numrich pdf file I attached previously.

The part I was referring to is number 41 - Safety Bar, which is Safety Tab in your picture.

Is it possible to remove the Safety Tab without removing the pin to the Safety Catch (thumb safety lever)? In other words force it?

I attached a picture showing what looked to me like a fresh scratch on the back of the Safety Tab after I got the gun back.

Ron Wood · 03-23-2015, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoftwarePerson

Is it possible to remove the Safety Tab without removing the pin to the Safety Catch (thumb safety lever)? In other words force it?

No. You have to drift out the pin that holds the thumb safety, remove the thumb safety, then you can wiggle the safety tab (safety bar) out of the frame. The pin must be driven out from the top and then reinserted from the bottom when you are putting everything back together.

alanint · 03-23-2015, 08:03 AM

If your pistol was all-matching prior to lending it out, it probably will not be now, if someone actually swapped parts. I confused sear bar with safety bar in my previous post, but both of these should be numbered to the gun.

SoftwarePerson · 03-23-2015, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

No. You have to drift out the pin that holds the thumb safety, remove the thumb safety, then you can wiggle the safety tab (safety bar) out of the frame. The pin must be driven out from the top and then reinserted from the bottom when you are putting everything back together.

Thanks much, especially for the diagram. I had read the procedure in another reference for removing the safety tab but did not understand where to go to remove the pin.

SoftwarePerson · 03-23-2015, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

If your pistol was all-matching prior to lending it out, it probably will not be now, if someone actually swapped parts. I confused sear bar with safety bar in my previous post, but both of these should be numbered to the gun.

I did not "lend it out", and it was taken apart without my permission. But that is a topic for a new thread.

One more question for this thread. If the gun truly had all original parts, should/could the safety tab (safety bar) have been blue steel instead of "straw" colored as viewed when the thumb safety level was activated to show "Gesichert" with the wood grips installed?

Ron Wood · 03-23-2015, 09:53 AM

The safety bar was originally "in the white", not blued or strawed.

03-21-2015, 11:38 AM	#21
aldo35 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northern GA Posts: 343 Thanks: 2,215 Thanked 146 Times in 76 Posts	Luger ID What does BKIW stand for? Aldo35

03-21-2015, 12:22 PM	#22
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Berlin Karlsruher Industrie Werke. That is what DWM transitioned to after WWI. BKIW still used the DWM trademark on the Luger toggle. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-22-2015, 05:32 PM	#33
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,342 Thanks: 7,264 Thanked 2,569 Times in 1,363 Posts	I'd say around a half hour, tops, to swap the parts you've described. This presumes basic familiarity with the process, and a bit of mechanical ability and sense. It is not very difficult. If, by "safety bar", you mean the dealie that blocks the sear when the safety lever is turned to the "safe" position, you'd need to tap out, from above, the retaining pin for the safety lever itself. With this removed, and the lever lifted out of the way, the bar is free to slide out of the frame. Just ask what the value range is, and you'll get responses here. I think a consensus on the forum is better at valuing a gun compared to just any random "gun dealer". I'd throw you a figure, but there are others that know better what it is worth. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-22-2015, 06:37 PM	#34
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Lets see if we can all get on the same page. Attached Images __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-23-2015, 09:53 AM	#40
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	The safety bar was originally "in the white", not blued or strawed. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-21-2015, 01:45 PM	#23
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Great Close Up pics!

03-21-2015, 10:11 PM	#26
SoftwarePerson User Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	How does my gun compare to this one: http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/64/lid/3372 I noticed it has the same proof mark as my gun.

03-22-2015, 08:57 AM	#27
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	Same variation. With that said, I think it will not, or barely, make their low estimate. I would not use their estimate as a price guide just yet. Then again....... one never knows. John

03-22-2015, 02:08 PM	#29
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Once you lift and slide out the leaf spring, which holds the bar in, the safety bar can simply be levered out of the upper frame.

03-22-2015, 04:05 PM	#31
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	Dan, I believe aliant is talking about the sear bar. what is your goal here? Is it to replace all common breakage parts to shoot it? If so, I would not do that either, but get a shooter grade gun. The piece that breaks will never be the one you replaced!!! Your luger is a good collectable luger, playing with swapping parts will do it no good at best, and harm at worst. These things were hand fit. John

03-23-2015, 08:03 AM	#37
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	If your pistol was all-matching prior to lending it out, it probably will not be now, if someone actually swapped parts. I confused sear bar with safety bar in my previous post, but both of these should be numbered to the gun.