Current German Carbine Reproductions - Page 2

Sieger · 08-30-2003, 04:38 PM

Hi All:

Jan just sent me some excellent photos of his Carbine. It looks magnificent!!!

If you would like to see these, please e-mail me at: wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com

You will be happy that you did. Meanwhile, I have contacted the German firm relative to importation, etc, and hope to be able to report something soon.

Sieger

Michael Zeleny · 08-31-2003, 05:47 AM

The carbine replica sounds like more trouble than it would be worth to import privately. The frame on which it is built must have been "removed from the purview of the NFA", as detailed at http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF2.html . While the final item on this list suggests the possibility of securing BATF approval for a short-barreled rifle built from scratch, I doubt that this process can be effectively coordinated by the members of this forum. Nevertheless, I would be all too happy to be proven wrong.

Importing the Swiss surplus M1906/29 would be much easier. I will finance and coordinate a wholesale shipment, given enough retail interest from the assembled audience, and agreement on the terms and conditions of the transaction.

Sieger · 08-31-2003, 12:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Michael Zeleny:

"The carbine replica sounds like more trouble than it would be worth to import privately.

"I doubt that this process can be effectively coordinated by the members of this forum. Nevertheless, I would be all to happy to be proven wrong." <hr /></blockquote>Gee Mike:

Your hope springs eternal.

No one said that it would be easy to import or assemble and license these here, but if anyone can do it, rest assured someone in our membership can.

Sieger

Sieger · 08-31-2003, 12:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Michael Zeleny:

"Importing the Swiss surplus M1906/29 would be much easier. I will finance and coordinate a wholesale shipment, given enough retail interest from the assembled audience, and agreement on the terms and conditions of the transaction."<hr /></blockquote>Mike:

If you were to start a thread on this, you might even get some interest.

Sieger

Michael Zeleny · 08-31-2003, 02:21 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sieger:

No one said that it would be easy to import or assemble and license these here, but if anyone can do it, rest assured someone in our membership can.
<hr /></blockquote>Okay, I'll bite. The requirements and desiderata for importing newly assembled guns are different from those for assembliing imported parts stateside. Arranging for a small shipment of antique handguns from Germany or Switzerland is a cinch, provided that they do not originate elsewhere, unlike Luger carbines of Romanian manufacture. All you need to break even is set your retail price at or above four times your wholesale cost FOB the port of entry. Setting yourself up as a manufacturer is a very different proposition, bringing to mind the reasons for these carbines to be assembled in Romania, by skilled workers earning $10 a day, rather than in Germany, by skilled workers earning $500 a day. You can cut your labor costs in half by setting up shop in certain parts of Texas or New Mexico. You can cut them fourfold by not looking too closely at your employees' immigration status. But you are not going to cut them to the level of Eastern Europe, whose output impresses you with its value for the money. And bear in mind that Sam Cummings never broke even with his Mauser Parabellum replicas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...o/polo1286.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m11...55/print.jhtml

JuergenG · 08-31-2003, 03:28 PM

The "fixed stock" carbine retros should also be available from Transarms in Germany. They advertise fixed stock broomhandles as well
www.transarms.de
No photos on the website, unfortunately.
You might want to ask for pics by e-mail; the owner speaks some English. He's around at www.infantryrifles.com occasionally.

Sieger · 09-01-2003, 12:11 AM

Why Pay a Mark-Up?

For those Forum members interested in importing Swiss Parabellums, please contact me at:

wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com

as I know of a direct source in Europe that can handle it.

Sieger

Sieger · 09-01-2003, 11:44 AM

Hi to All:

Herr Wagner has just sent me some photos of the Carbine parts and how they are mounted to the Luger's frame. I must say that it is an improvement over the original in its simplicity.

Please e-mail me at: Wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com for copies.

He wasn't familiar with the requirements for importing into the US so I'll keep checking.

Sieger

08-31-2003, 05:47 AM	#22
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	The carbine replica sounds like more trouble than it would be worth to import privately. The frame on which it is built must have been "removed from the purview of the NFA", as detailed at http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF2.html . While the final item on this list suggests the possibility of securing BATF approval for a short-barreled rifle built from scratch, I doubt that this process can be effectively coordinated by the members of this forum. Nevertheless, I would be all too happy to be proven wrong. Importing the Swiss surplus M1906/29 would be much easier. I will finance and coordinate a wholesale shipment, given enough retail interest from the assembled audience, and agreement on the terms and conditions of the transaction. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

08-31-2003, 12:08 PM	#23
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Michael Zeleny: <strong> "The carbine replica sounds like more trouble than it would be worth to import privately. "I doubt that this process can be effectively coordinated by the members of this forum. Nevertheless, I would be all to happy to be proven wrong." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Gee Mike: Your hope springs eternal. No one said that it would be easy to import or assemble and license these here, but if anyone can do it, rest assured someone in our membership can. Sieger

08-31-2003, 12:13 PM	#24
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Michael Zeleny: <strong> "Importing the Swiss surplus M1906/29 would be much easier. I will finance and coordinate a wholesale shipment, given enough retail interest from the assembled audience, and agreement on the terms and conditions of the transaction."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Mike: If you were to start a thread on this, you might even get some interest. Sieger

08-31-2003, 02:21 PM	#25
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Sieger: <strong> No one said that it would be easy to import or assemble and license these here, but if anyone can do it, rest assured someone in our membership can. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Okay, I'll bite. The requirements and desiderata for importing newly assembled guns are different from those for assembliing imported parts stateside. Arranging for a small shipment of antique handguns from Germany or Switzerland is a cinch, provided that they do not originate elsewhere, unlike Luger carbines of Romanian manufacture. All you need to break even is set your retail price at or above four times your wholesale cost FOB the port of entry. Setting yourself up as a manufacturer is a very different proposition, bringing to mind the reasons for these carbines to be assembled in Romania, by skilled workers earning $10 a day, rather than in Germany, by skilled workers earning $500 a day. You can cut your labor costs in half by setting up shop in certain parts of Texas or New Mexico. You can cut them fourfold by not looking too closely at your employees' immigration status. But you are not going to cut them to the level of Eastern Europe, whose output impresses you with its value for the money. And bear in mind that Sam Cummings never broke even with his Mauser Parabellum replicas. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...o/polo1286.htm http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m11...55/print.jhtml __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

08-30-2003, 04:38 PM	#21
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi All: Jan just sent me some excellent photos of his Carbine. It looks magnificent!!! If you would like to see these, please e-mail me at: wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com You will be happy that you did. Meanwhile, I have contacted the German firm relative to importation, etc, and hope to be able to report something soon. Sieger

08-31-2003, 03:28 PM	#26
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The "fixed stock" carbine retros should also be available from Transarms in Germany. They advertise fixed stock broomhandles as well www.transarms.de No photos on the website, unfortunately. You might want to ask for pics by e-mail; the owner speaks some English. He's around at www.infantryrifles.com occasionally.

09-01-2003, 12:11 AM	#27
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Why Pay a Mark-Up? For those Forum members interested in importing Swiss Parabellums, please contact me at: wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com as I know of a direct source in Europe that can handle it. Sieger

09-01-2003, 11:44 AM	#28
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi to All: Herr Wagner has just sent me some photos of the Carbine parts and how they are mounted to the Luger's frame. I must say that it is an improvement over the original in its simplicity. Please e-mail me at: Wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com for copies. He wasn't familiar with the requirements for importing into the US so I'll keep checking. Sieger