My first Borchardt,

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Murray,

Any chance of seeing some close-up photos of the "hold open" magazine and its tools...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[RockinWR]

Hi Ron & Murray,
* I'm certainly no expert on these; but, FWIW J. Walter, The Luger Book, Pg.74 states: "The only visible differences between the two types of Borchardt lie in the sear-bar(slotted in the Loewe examples, solid in DWM) and the trigger-plate, the DWM version of which has less of a spur projecting above the trigger guard. The front of the DWM frame is slightly different from the Loewe type, though the differences are comparitively minor and could have been effected simply by filing."
* Other than the Loewe S/N range being 1-1100 and the DWM range being approximately 1101(S/N 1105 known)-3013(mag 3019 known), I wouldn't know what other item might be different to constitute the third item Ron has in mind. BTW-The date of the production/marking transition is reported to be 1 January, 1897 when Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik became Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM) and Loewe tranferred "Borchardt" production to the new company.
* Why don't you two just loan me your two C/93's and I'll do a detailed study to find the differences!! Shouldn't take me much more than a lifetime or so.
* One beautiful cased treasure, Murray. Success & happy hunting those few missing accessories. Keep you on your toes with the thrill of the hunt being half the reward.
Respectfully,
Bob

[Ron Wood]

OK, make that 4 significant differences, I wasn't sure about the sear bar. But I am still looking for the most obvious, and I am really surprised that Walter didn't pick up on it because it is quite a "visible" difference.

[Big Norm]

Murray,
congratulations on your purchase. Be careful of that case. All the cases that I have seen seem to look very delicate after all these years.

I have a few questions the first of which is what is that black thing under the handle of the pistol? Another question is the color of the holster. All the holsters that I have seen where on DWM's and they were all black. Did the Lowes holsters come in the brown color? Another thing that I noticed is the strap on the neck of the holster. This one seems to have two rivets holding the strap to the holster. My holster does not show any holes in the leather that would indicate rivets where ever there. Perhaps this is why that strap is missing from my holster. But were these rivets on the Lowe Borchardt holster?

Except for the rivets and the color the holster looks like the finest Borchardt holster that I have seen. I sure would like it if someone who is good at wood workng to make a hard wood hold open magazine. Its tough holding the toogle back while trying to run a rod down the barrel.
Big Norm

[Imperial Arms]

Hello Murray,

Congratulations on obtaining a fine cased Loewe Borchardt. You seem to have that special luck finding great stuff 'down under'.

Without the intention of criticizing your Borchardt rig too strongly, I hope you do not mind me making a few comments based on some details which I can observe in your image. Firstly, the holster is a replacement because it was very common for the black patent leather holsters to quickly peel/loose the epidermis and expose the suede underneath; they were very fragile leather holsters made of the same leather used later on the Navy holsters.

Secondly, I believe that the felt in your case has been replaced which I have also observed with other Borchardt cases. Take a look at the cased Loewe Borchardt on my website to note the correct details and accessories (the brass oil can is an addition, and the set is actually missing the round grease can which is a very rare included accessory).

I admire the condition of your pistol and you have a task ahead to find the additional accessories!

Well done,
Albert

[Big Norm]

Hello Murray,
I feel sorry if I hurt your feelings by criticizing your admirable find. The Lowe Borchardt is harder to find than the DWM Borchardt and I would be proud to have one. I would love to have the one that you have. I really did think that because the Borchardt was a commercial gun that maybe your nice brown holster would be original. But I have to admit that I learned something from Alberts discussion.
Big Norm

[John Sabato]

Hey Norm, I think the "black thing" is the handle of a screwdriver... just my guess.

[Imperial Arms]

Hello Norm & John,

I believe that the 'black thing' is the leather sleeve for the round oil can or possibly the grease can.

Albert

[Ron Wood]

It's a screwdriver.
C'mon, somebody do little sleuthing and tell me what is the last difference I am looking for between a Loewe and a DWM Borchardt.

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Ron,

Are the front sights different...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Ron Wood]

Nope, but you are on the right track. Go to the other end of the sights.

[Big Norm]

Ron,
Walters book (pg 74) says that there was a slight difference on the front of the frame and that the differences are comparatively minor and could have been effected simply by filing.
He also says that the sear bar was slotted in the Loewe and solid in the DWM Borchardt. I can't tell from the pictures in the book.
I also think that the black thing-a-ma-bob is the sleave from the oil can. The comes very close to the picture on page 75 of Walters book.
Big Norm

[Ron Wood]

Norm
"Rockin WR" quoted the same reference in his post above, and I replied that I am surprised that Walter didn't list the difference I am looking for.
Probably the references that would show the difference are hard to come by and probably only a die-hard Borchardt buff would have access to them. So I will relieve the suspense and reveal that the biggest difference is that the Loewe Borchardt has an adjustable rear sight and the DWM is fixed.
The black thing is a screwdriver.
Best wishes to all for the holiday season.

[Lugers down under]

Well Guys, thank you for your kind comments.
To answer you all,
Firstly I have been in the USA for the last 12 days with no laptop hence no earlier comments.
The holster.
I believe it is a replacement but very old.
It is actually a dark brown. The Holster came from England with the gun in 1982. It seems to me to be accurate but I have little to compare it to.I am happy with it,
The case lining I also believe has been replaced or the case has been refurbished at some time. The felt is actually a very dark green.
The black thing under the grip is the ebony handle of the screwdriver.
While in the USA last week I picked up a cleaning brush, the oil bottle and......a spare mag!
Ron, there is definatly a pin on the main spring assembly that is not on the DWM. (Refer difference between Loewe and DWM John Walter Luger story) also I found out that Loewe is pronounced as "Louver".
Kind wishes and merry christmas to you all,
Murray.

[Ron Wood]

Murray,

I am not sure of the pronunciation of Loewe. For typesets that do not have the "�¶" character, the diphthong "oe" is substituted. It is hard to explain how "�¶" is pronounced, but it is kind of like "oer" with your lips puckered up. So that would make Loewe or L�¶we come out a little like "Loerva". L�¶we is German for lion.

I have never seen the name of the firm that bore Ludwig Loewe's name spelled other than Loewe. It could be that his family name was anglicized from L�¶we early on for commercial purposes, making it more attractive in international trade. However, if it always was Loewe, it is possible that there was an English connection in the family tree and the pronunciation would actually be "Low".

[Heinz]

Ron and Murray, My understanding is that the Loewe name is Jewish. Ludwig was a merchant turned sewing machine manufacturer turned major industrialist. I have been gathering scraps of data on Loewe manufacturing over the year in hopes of putting a small essay together. A brief history, that may not be preciely accurate but is close, can be found at the follwing link.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=520&letter=L
The traditional German Jewish pronounciation would be "Low eh". BUt people do tend to pronounce things the way they want to and there might be wide variation from area to area. For instance "Kerry" is often pronounced "meat head" in the red states.

[RockinWR]

Heinz.
* Your dry wit is priceless!
* I still haven't stopped chuckling.
* Thanks,
Bob

[Lugers down under]

I have to tell you all about an amazing coincidence.
I have always wanted a Borchardt and I finally got one, matching numbers 315.

My other interest is 1921 Colt Thompsons and I have four all with three digit serial numbers.
I have always wanted a Colt 100 round "C" drum magazine to go with them. They did not make very many in 1921-1923.
I finally got one at the SAR show last week with matching numbers.........315.
Now is that a coincidence or what!

I do have a number of "L" drums, (50 round) which are mainly Bridgeport, Crosby and Seymore and a 1928 Colt drum.
I have one early Colt "L" drum, number.....513!

I think I might buy a Lotto ticket.

[John Sabato]

Only buy one ticket Murray... it seems that considering the events of the last few weeks for you... that should be all you need

[unspellable]

Why would minor production changes neccesarily coincide exactly with the name change from Loewe to DWM. After all, it's the same company and they were coming off the same production line.

BTW: Kerry has an invisable "s" in front of it and is pronounced "scary".