Luger Chambers VS Modern Chambers

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by JTD

Mark, watching your primer for signs of flattening worked for me. Again In modern BOLT action rifles.

Hi,

As barbaric as it may sound, this has been my procedure ever since I started handloading in the mid to late 1970s; and I have yet to blowup either a rifle or pistol by using it.

It is amazing how much one can tell just by reading the casing and primer. With hotter rifle loads, I might measure case expansion at the base, comparing it to a factory fired casing.

Usually, with military type rifle loads, I have gotten my very best groups at or near maximum loads (6.5x55 Mauser and 7.62x54R Mosin are good examples).

Your thoughts and comments?


Respectfully,


Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Doubs

I've settled on CFE Pistol Powder for .30 Luger, 7.63 Mauser, 7.62 Tokarev, 9mm. .40 S&W and .45ACP. It's has a burn rate slightly slower than Unique according to the burn chart and is very clean. I meter it through a powder measure and my loads are very consistent. I weigh every 10th round and am never off more than .1 grains.

Most electronic scales - yours included - are accurate to within .1 grains plus or minus. That's the same accuracy I get from my measure.

For precision rifle loads, I use an A&D EJ-123 scale that is accurate to within 2/100 of a grain. I run my loads off on an RCBS Chargemaster and then fine tune them on the A&D scale.

I go for accuracy and function. I NEVER push my loads to the max. I've never seen the need to do so.

Doubs,

Most interesting!

I need to discuss your 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev loads with you right away (in a private message if you would like). I would be most interested in discussing bullet types, diameters and weights with you.

Where can I purchase the A&D scale you mentioned above?

You may think this is a funny observation, but i have noted that some individual powder flakes can easily exceed .1 of a grain, the larger IMR powder series is a good example, so 2/100 of a grain accuracy seems a bit of an overkill to me.

Respectfully,


Sieger

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Doubs, I need to discuss your 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev loads with you right away (in a private message if you would like). I would be most interested in discussing bullet types, diameters and weights with you.

Where can I purchase the A&D scale you mentioned above?

You may think this is a funny observation, but i have noted that some individual powder flakes can easily exceed .1 of a grain, the larger IMR powder series is a good example, so 2/100 of a grain accuracy seems a bit of an overkill to me.

Respectfully, Sieger

For both .30 Luger and .30 Mauser/Tokarev, I use a couple of bullets. The 90 grain .309" Hornady XTP HP works well with 5.0 grains of CFE Pistol Powder in either cartridge. The Luger is a much stronger action than the Mauser so I keep my Mauser loads as mild as possible while reliably functioning the action.

I also use the 85 grain .312" Hornady HP in both cartridges BUT I run them through a Lyman Lubrisizer H&I die and reduce the diameter to .309". I use STP to lube the bullets to reduce friction going into and out of the die. I wash the bullets in water and dish washing liquid to remove the STP. The same 5.0 grains of CFE Pistol Powder works well.

Another bullet I use is the 90 grain Sierra HC with exposed lead as you can see in the picture I used in the first post. It's also a .312" bullet but reduced to .309". Note the change in the profile of the nose created by the punch used when resizing. It turns the bullet into almost a round nose which aids feeding.

Because the cartridges have short necks and neck tension is so critical to prevent bullet setback as the cartridges feed through the action, I use a Lee factory crimp die that makes the case mouth grip the bullet tightly and prevent setback.

The A&D EJ-123 scale came from Old Will Knott Scales; good people to deal with. Not cheap but very good. Just remember to keep it away from florescent lights and any electrical interference to prevent drift. https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/a...on-ej-123.html

Mostly I use H-4895 and similar powders for my rifles. One kernel of powder will usually equal .02 (2/100) of a grain.

[eagle7373]

Quote
For both .30 Luger and .30 Mauser/Tokarev, I use a couple of bullets. The 90 grain .309" Hornady XTP HP works well with 5.0 grains of CFE Pistol Powder in either cartridge. The Luger is a much stronger action than the Mauser so I keep my Mauser loads as mild as possible while reliably functioning the action.
End Quote

Doubs,

In your post quoted above, what depths did you seat the bullet to? I also use the Hornady 309 90gr XTP in my 7.65 Lugers, and I seat it to 1.148" COL. For a round nose bullet I might try to get closer to 1.165" but a hollow point is shorter, so I'm thinking 1.148 is about right for that shoulder. It feeds and shoots fine using 4.8 gr Alliant Power Pistol (mild to medium). Would be interested in your COL and your assessment of how CFE Pistol compares.

I have not used the Hornady bullet in my 7.63 Mauser loads. Wasn't sure it would be okay. I use the Sierra 85gr 308 RN soft point seated to 1.370" over 5.1gr of Power Pistol (mild load). Would like to compare your load (COL, recoil) with mine if possible.

Thanks very much for your very helpful info on new versus old pistol chambers.

Glenn

[Doubs]

Glen, I've seated the 90 grain Hornady XTP bullet for an OAL of 1.56". It works well in my .30 Lugers. CFE Pistol Powder burns clean and seems to have the proper impulse to work the Luger action. I also use it in my 9mm Lugers.

Whatever OAL you use, two things are important. First the cartridge must feed through the magazine. I've had magazines where the bullet would hang up on the notch that secures the magazine in the pistol. The OAL was too short and seating the bullet out a little more cured that problem. The second issue is the chamber itself. I have an old barrel taken off of a Portuguese 1906 Luger - their M/909 - and I drop every cartridge I load into it's chamber. If they seat properly, I have no problems in my Lugers.

For my more modern pistols such as my Benelli B-80 and Browning Hi-Power, I have to seat the bullets deeper as they have chambers with short leads that will not chamber my Luger loads.

If your Mauser loads using 85 grain bullets work OK then stick with them as the bullet weight is very close to the original 86 grain Mauser bullet. If you try 90 grain bullets, reduce your powder load some.