Help a Member with an inherited Luger - Page 2

lugerholsterrepair · 03-05-2013, 10:14 PM

the serial number 2762 r and the number 62 on the smaller parts

Are these numbers on the outward face of the part (Military style) or underneath..out of obvious view? (Commercial style)

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-05-2013, 10:26 PM

The barrel is flattend at the top where it meets the reciever and the top of the sight sits flush with it when set all the way down. The serials on the parts, are all exposed except one which is partially hidden when the breech is closed, on the left side....

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-05-2013, 10:28 PM

2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-05-2013, 10:31 PM

The parts marked 62 are all very obvious!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-05-2013, 10:39 PM

2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...

Is there a serial number on the underside of the barrel near the 2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...?

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-05-2013, 10:49 PM

No number on the barrel, 2762 r directly below the barrel on reciever just above the trigger guard.

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-05-2013, 10:58 PM

No proofs at all on the gun...

lugerholsterrepair · 03-05-2013, 11:15 PM

Well..Not much else to say about it. There has to be a Crown N or other Nitro proof on the pistol somewhere. Side of the breechblock usually. It was a German requirement. Taking the pistol apart might let you look it over a little more closely.

Take the rust off the magazine.

The stock is an enigma without either better photo's or more detail. It can't even be evaluated as it is.
The pistol either actually. More information and or better photo's are necessary but from what I see..The pistol is likely $7-800 as a shooter.
The stock might be $200 unless something else about it comes to light. Really need to see the attaching iron to wood fit..Closeup of the strap slots etc. It could be an original period stock..not desirable as a Military serialed Crown S proofed stock.
Again, I would put some distance between the two of these. Sell the stock to someone. Forget about keeping them together. Might not bump into trouble but it's there..waiting..

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-05-2013, 11:29 PM

Will post more photos of both the stock and gun tomorrow. Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated!

Edward Tinker · 03-06-2013, 01:45 AM

lugerskewl, your postings disappear?

I would think a 12 inch barrel luger is worth $900-$1300?

I would imagine it would be a very fun gun to shoot, looking for anything in trade?

The artillery stock is legal to be sold at the same time, I own an artillery, as do others and could be bought the same time or separately. What is interesting is that in the late 1920's or 1930's when this was made, it was perfectly legal to sell these together. Although probably made in 1929/1930 time frame for the frame, you could buy long barrels in the 50's and 60's and installed and sent to you; so many times it is hard to figure out when the barrel was installed without some acceptance / proof markings.

Ed

Edward Tinker · 03-06-2013, 01:50 AM

I would say the suffix is a 'c' ....

My guess is that it is is a luger that was modified after WW1 for the commercial market, much more common than we usually think.

alanint · 03-06-2013, 08:01 AM

You can also submit the combination of pistol and stock to the ATF and ask for a ruling to have it placed on the "Curios and Relics" list. You will need documentation that these pistols were commonly sold by Pacific Arms and others in the 1920s-1930s. Once one pistol is accepted, then all others should be extempt as well. The main challenge is that I am not aware that Pacific Arms marked their work in any way.

Lugerdoc · 03-06-2013, 10:49 AM

Mitch et al, Your barrel looks like it is more than 12" to me. If over 16", your stock would be OK. According to some old catalogs that I've seen, both Stoeger & Pacific Arms Corp, would add new long barrels in either 9 or 765mmP, in lengths from 8" to 24" with the tangent rear sight, to your luger during the 1920 to 1930 period. As far as I know, none of this type, except the 8" LPO8 and 12" Carbine with forestock, were ever assembled at DWM in Germany. TH

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-06-2013, 12:08 PM

New set of photos on the way...

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-06-2013, 12:40 PM

http://s1076.beta.photobucket.com/us...dyman/library/
I tore the gun down and found the #4 stamped on the bottom lug on the barrel.
There were other stampings under the grips and inside the breach, all of which can be seen in the photos.
Also added photos of fit and finish on the stock....
Thanks for all your help!
Mitch Buschbacher

lugerholsterrepair · 03-06-2013, 01:00 PM

Mitch, The stock looks period. I suspect it was a Military stock surplussed after the war, never military accepted. Sold into the USA during the 20's-30's. Quite probably with the pistol. Regardless..they HAVE to be seperated now.
I would want to buy the stock for $350 and if it were mine I would be asking $450-500.
The pistol has not changed..It is what it is.

The main challenge is that I am not aware that Pacific Arms marked their work in any way. The only Pacific Arms markings I have been able to observe was on a Pacific Arms Carbine I bought once many years ago. Under the foregrip were some Pacific Arms markings..code I think but certainly translateable to Pacific Arms.

You can also submit the combination of pistol and stock to the ATF and ask for a ruling to have it placed on the "Curios and Relics" list Man..I sure wouldn't jump into that hornets nest given the current attitude of this administration. Better to sell them seperate if selling is your intent. Don't touch the TarBaby IMO.

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-06-2013, 01:06 PM

Thanks for your input Jerry, I will consider your offer, Have a gun show here in town on Saturday and will be showing the gun and stock there first....

lugerholsterrepair · 03-06-2013, 01:17 PM

Mitch..Just do me a favor Brother..DON"T have both of these items in your possesion out in public. I ain't kidding ya when I say it could cost you. All it takes is some overzealus agent with nothing better to do...Generally I am not an alarmist.. There are PLENTY of agents at gun shows.. NOTHING illegal about either of these in seperation..together.. this is a lethal combination. Even if you didn't go to jail..defending yourself would cost what these are worth many times over. AND the pistol and stock would be siezed..confiscated..destroyed.

It alarms me when I hear you say this. Have a gun show here in town on Saturday and will be showing the gun and stock there first. It makes me wonder if you have been reading what I have been writing about the penalties for possesion of a short barreled rifle. You DON"T even have to have the stock attached to be in violation. Stock in your left hand and pistol in your right hand is enough.

Mitch Buschbacher · 03-06-2013, 01:29 PM

Plan on having my son take the stock. Thanks again for the concern! It is greatly appreciated!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-06-2013, 01:52 PM

Mitch..OK! Sounds good.

03-05-2013, 10:14 PM	#21
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,926 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	the serial number 2762 r and the number 62 on the smaller parts Are these numbers on the outward face of the part (Military style) or underneath..out of obvious view? (Commercial style) __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-05-2013, 10:39 PM	#25
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,926 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel... Is there a serial number on the underside of the barrel near the 2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-05-2013, 11:15 PM	#28
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,926 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Well..Not much else to say about it. There has to be a Crown N or other Nitro proof on the pistol somewhere. Side of the breechblock usually. It was a German requirement. Taking the pistol apart might let you look it over a little more closely. Take the rust off the magazine. The stock is an enigma without either better photo's or more detail. It can't even be evaluated as it is. The pistol either actually. More information and or better photo's are necessary but from what I see..The pistol is likely $7-800 as a shooter. The stock might be $200 unless something else about it comes to light. Really need to see the attaching iron to wood fit..Closeup of the strap slots etc. It could be an original period stock..not desirable as a Military serialed Crown S proofed stock. Again, I would put some distance between the two of these. Sell the stock to someone. Forget about keeping them together. Might not bump into trouble but it's there..waiting.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-06-2013, 01:45 AM	#30
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,029 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	lugerskewl, your postings disappear? I would think a 12 inch barrel luger is worth $900-$1300? I would imagine it would be a very fun gun to shoot, looking for anything in trade? The artillery stock is legal to be sold at the same time, I own an artillery, as do others and could be bought the same time or separately. What is interesting is that in the late 1920's or 1930's when this was made, it was perfectly legal to sell these together. Although probably made in 1929/1930 time frame for the frame, you could buy long barrels in the 50's and 60's and installed and sent to you; so many times it is hard to figure out when the barrel was installed without some acceptance / proof markings. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-06-2013, 01:50 AM	#31
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,029 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	I would say the suffix is a 'c' .... My guess is that it is is a luger that was modified after WW1 for the commercial market, much more common than we usually think. Attached Images

03-05-2013, 10:26 PM	#22
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The barrel is flattend at the top where it meets the reciever and the top of the sight sits flush with it when set all the way down. The serials on the parts, are all exposed except one which is partially hidden when the breech is closed, on the left side....

03-05-2013, 10:28 PM	#23
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...

03-05-2013, 10:31 PM	#24
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The parts marked 62 are all very obvious!

03-05-2013, 10:49 PM	#26
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No number on the barrel, 2762 r directly below the barrel on reciever just above the trigger guard.

03-05-2013, 10:58 PM	#27
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No proofs at all on the gun...

03-05-2013, 11:29 PM	#29
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Will post more photos of both the stock and gun tomorrow. Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated!

03-06-2013, 08:01 AM	#32
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You can also submit the combination of pistol and stock to the ATF and ask for a ruling to have it placed on the "Curios and Relics" list. You will need documentation that these pistols were commonly sold by Pacific Arms and others in the 1920s-1930s. Once one pistol is accepted, then all others should be extempt as well. The main challenge is that I am not aware that Pacific Arms marked their work in any way.

03-06-2013, 10:49 AM	#33
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mitch et al, Your barrel looks like it is more than 12" to me. If over 16", your stock would be OK. According to some old catalogs that I've seen, both Stoeger & Pacific Arms Corp, would add new long barrels in either 9 or 765mmP, in lengths from 8" to 24" with the tangent rear sight, to your luger during the 1920 to 1930 period. As far as I know, none of this type, except the 8" LPO8 and 12" Carbine with forestock, were ever assembled at DWM in Germany. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-06-2013, 12:08 PM	#34
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New set of photos on the way...

03-06-2013, 12:40 PM	#35
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://s1076.beta.photobucket.com/us...dyman/library/ I tore the gun down and found the #4 stamped on the bottom lug on the barrel. There were other stampings under the grips and inside the breach, all of which can be seen in the photos. Also added photos of fit and finish on the stock.... Thanks for all your help! Mitch Buschbacher

03-06-2013, 01:00 PM	#36
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,926 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Mitch, The stock looks period. I suspect it was a Military stock surplussed after the war, never military accepted. Sold into the USA during the 20's-30's. Quite probably with the pistol. Regardless..they HAVE to be seperated now. I would want to buy the stock for $350 and if it were mine I would be asking $450-500. The pistol has not changed..It is what it is. The main challenge is that I am not aware that Pacific Arms marked their work in any way. The only Pacific Arms markings I have been able to observe was on a Pacific Arms Carbine I bought once many years ago. Under the foregrip were some Pacific Arms markings..code I think but certainly translateable to Pacific Arms. You can also submit the combination of pistol and stock to the ATF and ask for a ruling to have it placed on the "Curios and Relics" list Man..I sure wouldn't jump into that hornets nest given the current attitude of this administration. Better to sell them seperate if selling is your intent. Don't touch the TarBaby IMO. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-06-2013, 01:06 PM	#37
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your input Jerry, I will consider your offer, Have a gun show here in town on Saturday and will be showing the gun and stock there first....

03-06-2013, 01:17 PM	#38
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,926 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Mitch..Just do me a favor Brother..DON"T have both of these items in your possesion out in public. I ain't kidding ya when I say it could cost you. All it takes is some overzealus agent with nothing better to do...Generally I am not an alarmist.. There are PLENTY of agents at gun shows.. NOTHING illegal about either of these in seperation..together.. this is a lethal combination. Even if you didn't go to jail..defending yourself would cost what these are worth many times over. AND the pistol and stock would be siezed..confiscated..destroyed. It alarms me when I hear you say this. Have a gun show here in town on Saturday and will be showing the gun and stock there first. It makes me wonder if you have been reading what I have been writing about the penalties for possesion of a short barreled rifle. You DON"T even have to have the stock attached to be in violation. Stock in your left hand and pistol in your right hand is enough. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-06-2013, 01:29 PM	#39
Mitch Buschbacher User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Plan on having my son take the stock. Thanks again for the concern! It is greatly appreciated!

03-06-2013, 01:52 PM	#40
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,926 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Mitch..OK! Sounds good. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."