Who's Going To Reno on 8-16 to 8-18 ? - Page 2

edgedealer · 08-08-2002, 10:39 PM

Your right Wes, pristine condition, would infer that very few people have owned or handled the gun. Perhaps just the person who made it and the person who is currently selling it???? Who knows how old it is ????

Garfield · 08-08-2002, 11:24 PM

edgedealer:

A very astute observation!

Pete:

Yes, I saw "IT".

Thank you for the offer to share, however, I don't think that I want to go there. You and the bunch will be meeting at Ralph's table at Reno, where, independent of any outside influence, you can make your own determination as to the authenticity of this "debateable" luger. Were I to make comment now, conceivably, your ability to make a totally independant evaluation might be impaired. That would not be fair to you or other interested members of this forum.

Have a great show.

Brandon · 08-08-2002, 11:39 PM

Jan,
Charlie isn't the only "Luger Man" for Gun Report!
In the January 2001 issue of Gun Report (An issue I would not have had if Mr. Charles Kenyon hadn't so Kindly gave me two years of Gun Report back issues) a article by a Mr. Finn Nielson on a "Drill Purposes Luger"! So the impending .45 Carbine article could be wrote by somone other than Charles Kenyon Jr.

Also I have no idea of how you took my post....???
I was just making a comment that I framed the "sample cover" that Ralph so kindly sent to me!

As for Pete, He was just trying to be respectful! He knew that maybe Ralph didn't want the name of the publication revealed! He clearly cares about the feelings of others! If the whole world had half of the respect for others, that Pete Ebbink has, The world would be a much better place to live in!

I was at Kansas City and, I saw the .45 Carbine! It was very bright and appeared to have been well taken care of! Jan if you would like to see the .45 carbine but haven't been invited to Phoenix, Why don't you just go to a gun-show that Ralph will be at? The last I heard, gun-shows were open to the public! If you actually saw the Carbine you might change your opinion of it, and just might do a little drooling yourself!

With All Due Respect!
Brandon...

Garfield · 08-09-2002, 12:55 AM

Brandon:

Although you appear to be a very dedicated lad, and, no doubt, clever, too, again you have missed the point. It is not Mr. Still's mission in life to travel to AZ to inspect this 45 caliber luger carbine. Nor should he be expected to travel to some distant gun show to view it. After all, Mr. Still is not the one attempting to sell the piece for 1M.

You have accepted the authenticity of this pistol from the moment that it's existence was made known without having seen it. Mr Still, who has a few years on you both in age and collecting experience, has doubts about it's authenticity, also without having seen it. I'm going to have to put my money on Still.

By the way, Jan Still cares about others, too. He doesn't like to see luger collectors being taken advantage of.

I know that I am going to get flak about picking on a kid, however, Brandon, if you want to run with the big dogs you got to take your licks.

Good Hunting,

Pete Ebbink · 08-09-2002, 01:27 AM

Well All,

I think I started this post with a simple attempt to give some of us a chance to meet "socially" at the the up-coming Reno gun show.

I think we will have a small group of Forum folks meeting on Saturday, 8-17-02 near the Shattuck table at noon.

Herb, Jim, and Dr. Fisher and me; I think that is our head count for now...Looking forward to meeting all Forum folks who can join us !!!

p.s. Does anyone know what the Reno gun show sponsors say about using cameras during the show ? Are they allowed ?

edgedealer · 08-09-2002, 01:31 AM

Hello Brandon,
I agree with Garfield, your enthusiasm and your interest in the Luger pistol is quite refreshing.There are not enough younger collectors in our field. I know my 6 year old is quite interested in guns and knives, the same way I was when I was growing up. I have been in this business of buying and selling firearms and edged weapons my entire life.
Through observing and listening to many collectors over the years, as well as handling thousands of guns, you retain information. You also learn about people in general.
I am glad you got to see the carbine, I do not doubt it looks good, probably a fancy display case too.There are many of us in the business who do not need to see this gun to make up our minds.The amount of questions I,and others, would have concerning this gun would not be answered.
I am afraid the answers would become a fiction story. I have been told that the story of how the gun surfaced has changed??
On a personal note to you, Keep up your enthusiasm, you could not have picked a finer gun to appreciate.

Frank · 08-09-2002, 10:36 AM

[quote]I know that I am going to get flak about picking on a kid, however, Brandon, if you want to run with the big dogs you got to take your licks.<hr></blockquote>

I don't know why you think you are going to get flak. Your posts pretty well describe your attitude!!

MauserLugers · 08-09-2002, 11:10 AM

Hi Frank,
I know Garfield very well and share tables with him at the Kansas City show twice a year. We visit on the phone regularly and I can assure you that he gives flak to EVERYONE, but only if he likes you. He is arrogant, grumpy, grouchy, and just plain MEAN, but very knowledgeable. Just kidding! Actually he is a very good guy and one of my best buddies, and if you get to know him, you will appreciate him. Garfield, will be looking at the 1908 commercial military this weekend as the guy that got it will bring it up for me to verify. Will let you know the details.

Brandon · 08-09-2002, 11:12 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Garfield:
[QB] It is not Mr. Still's mission in life to travel to AZ to inspect this 45 caliber luger carbine. Nor should he be expected to travel to some distant gun show to view it's contenence. [QB]<hr></blockquote>

Actually I don't think I've "missed the point"!
The point is, Jan is criticizing something before he's even saw it! That is a bad practice to be in! You could very well make yourself look like an idiot playing that game! Jan should either go see it and be able to base his criticism on something or just keep quiet IMHO!

With Respect always!
Brandon...

Hugh · 08-09-2002, 11:37 AM

I lived in the Rebulik of Kalifornia back in "the good old days" of the late "60's. There used to be some great gun shows in the LA area. I especially remember the ones at the Disneyland Hotel. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> [img]frown.gif[/img]

Edward Tinker · 08-09-2002, 12:05 PM

Hey Hugh, trying to change the tone of the conversation???

People get worked up, me too, but I must say that several of the people that get me worked up, also bend over backwards trying to help out with a Luger question.

I've given up on the 45 Carbine question, I understand all the views, as a piece of shooting art, it is great, the history of it, I have no idea, but will always be anxious to see what others think!

Anyway to all those old grumpy men, young whipper snappers and such, keep up the light banter and all the great information about Lugers you help a lot with the day to go by!

[img]smile.gif[/img] thanks alot [img]smile.gif[/img]

Frank · 08-09-2002, 05:02 PM

Hey Bill,
Thanks for the description of your pal Garfield. It is appreciated. I never questioned GarfieldÃ¢??s knowledge, just his MANNERS.

[quote]I know Garfield very well and share tables with him at the Kansas City show twice a year. We visit on the phone regularly and I can assure you that he gives flak to EVERYONE, but only if he likes you. He is arrogant, grumpy, grouchy, and just plain MEAN, but very knowledgeable. Just kidding!<hr></blockquote>

My motto is Ã¢??if you canÃ¢??t take it donÃ¢??t dish it outÃ¢?Â, so based on your words he must be really thick skinned. IÃ¢??ll be on the alert!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Jan C Still · 08-09-2002, 05:49 PM

Brandon, I think its good that such a young Luger collector is posting on the Forum.

Below are two of your postings on the Forum prior to your seeing the .45 carbine at Kansas City on 07/27/02.
Brandon 05/29/02: "I stand behind Ralph 100%! I not only think the .45 carbine is real, but I would buy it in a heartbeat if I had the money!
These are my thoughts on the subject!"
Brandon 06/05/02:"You are all so jealous of Ralph you can't stand it ....... are all just a bunch of whining babies!!!!!!!!!!"

Your posting on the Form concerning the fact that Jan Still didn't travel to a gun show to see the .45 carbine.

Brandon 08/09/02: "The point is, Jan is criticizing something before he's even saw it! That is a bad practice to be in! You could very well make yourself look like an idiot playing that game! Jan should either go see it
and be able to base his criticism on something or just keep quiet IMHO!"

Brandon, I dont think that you intended to imply, that it is OK for supporters of the .45 carbine to pass judgement "100%" without seeing it? But, if others suggest honest critical questions it's a bad practice and they are in danger of looking like an idiot. You may want to modify your post.

Brandon are you speaking for yourself or are you speaking for the seller?

Jan
PS: Please read my posts. Trust what I say, not what others think I say.

edgedealer · 08-09-2002, 05:55 PM

Brandon,
There is much to teach you about this business. Someone like Jan Still, keep in mind he's written excellent books on these guns,can look at a photo and make a determination one way or the other. When you handle guns all the time you learn what to look for.The pics on the website are good enough to make that point. Your loyalty to "grandpa" is strong. But do not shout or throw stones at other authorities in the field who doubt what he is telling you. when you talk to him again, ask him who he considers experts in the field to determine the authenticity of the gun. I KNOW the whole forum would love to see his list of EXPERTS

Garfield · 08-09-2002, 05:59 PM

Frank:

And one of my mottos is: "When in Rome......

Brandon · 08-09-2002, 07:44 PM

Jan,
I think we all owe Ralph the benefit of the doubt!
Sure I beleve Ralph, but if he is PROVEN wrong, who am I to disagree?

To answer your question I am speaking for myself! Ralph has never told me what to or what not to say!

Jan, I have nothing against you or anyone on this forum! I have learned a LOT from your books and some of your posts! I have also learned that no one is always right! I just see things a little bit differently sometimes! If I'm wrong for this then I'm just wrong!

Kind Regards!... [img]smile.gif[/img]
Brandon...

Frank · 08-09-2002, 10:19 PM

Garfield,

I thought you were a little SE of Nome!!!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Garfield · 08-09-2002, 10:36 PM

Frank:

Curse me for a lout! Hit the wrong key! Meant to say, "When in Nome, do as the Nomads do.". Anyway, I am certain that you get the drift.

Frank · 08-10-2002, 02:30 AM

Garfield:

Or perhaps "When in Nome, do as the Gnomes do!!!"

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Edward Tinker · 08-10-2002, 02:41 AM

Awww, Garfield just go in and change your posting, that way it makes the sense you want it to. Of course the posts after it might look oddddd [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

After I make a post and if I see I screwed up, I will go in, edit it and that way maybe one or two people see I am an idiot instead of everyone. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> {had to go in twice for this one, darn screwdrivers}

08-09-2002, 11:37 AM	#30
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I lived in the Rebulik of Kalifornia back in "the good old days" of the late "60's. There used to be some great gun shows in the LA area. I especially remember the ones at the Disneyland Hotel. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> [img]frown.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-09-2002, 12:05 PM	#31
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Hey Hugh, trying to change the tone of the conversation??? People get worked up, me too, but I must say that several of the people that get me worked up, also bend over backwards trying to help out with a Luger question. I've given up on the 45 Carbine question, I understand all the views, as a piece of shooting art, it is great, the history of it, I have no idea, but will always be anxious to see what others think! Anyway to all those old grumpy men, young whipper snappers and such, keep up the light banter and all the great information about Lugers you help a lot with the day to go by! [img]smile.gif[/img] thanks alot [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-10-2002, 02:41 AM	#40
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Awww, Garfield just go in and change your posting, that way it makes the sense you want it to. Of course the posts after it might look oddddd [img]biggrin.gif[/img] After I make a post and if I see I screwed up, I will go in, edit it and that way maybe one or two people see I am an idiot instead of everyone. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> {had to go in twice for this one, darn screwdrivers} __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-08-2002, 10:39 PM	#21
edgedealer User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hawthorne,Ca Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Your right Wes, pristine condition, would infer that very few people have owned or handled the gun. Perhaps just the person who made it and the person who is currently selling it???? Who knows how old it is ????

08-08-2002, 11:24 PM	#22
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	edgedealer: A very astute observation! Pete: Yes, I saw "IT". Thank you for the offer to share, however, I don't think that I want to go there. You and the bunch will be meeting at Ralph's table at Reno, where, independent of any outside influence, you can make your own determination as to the authenticity of this "debateable" luger. Were I to make comment now, conceivably, your ability to make a totally independant evaluation might be impaired. That would not be fair to you or other interested members of this forum. Have a great show.

08-08-2002, 11:39 PM	#23
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jan, Charlie isn't the only "Luger Man" for Gun Report! In the January 2001 issue of Gun Report (An issue I would not have had if Mr. Charles Kenyon hadn't so Kindly gave me two years of Gun Report back issues) a article by a Mr. Finn Nielson on a "Drill Purposes Luger"! So the impending .45 Carbine article could be wrote by somone other than Charles Kenyon Jr. Also I have no idea of how you took my post....??? I was just making a comment that I framed the "sample cover" that Ralph so kindly sent to me! As for Pete, He was just trying to be respectful! He knew that maybe Ralph didn't want the name of the publication revealed! He clearly cares about the feelings of others! If the whole world had half of the respect for others, that Pete Ebbink has, The world would be a much better place to live in! I was at Kansas City and, I saw the .45 Carbine! It was very bright and appeared to have been well taken care of! Jan if you would like to see the .45 carbine but haven't been invited to Phoenix, Why don't you just go to a gun-show that Ralph will be at? The last I heard, gun-shows were open to the public! If you actually saw the Carbine you might change your opinion of it, and just might do a little drooling yourself! With All Due Respect! Brandon...

08-09-2002, 12:55 AM	#24
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Brandon: Although you appear to be a very dedicated lad, and, no doubt, clever, too, again you have missed the point. It is not Mr. Still's mission in life to travel to AZ to inspect this 45 caliber luger carbine. Nor should he be expected to travel to some distant gun show to view it. After all, Mr. Still is not the one attempting to sell the piece for 1M. You have accepted the authenticity of this pistol from the moment that it's existence was made known without having seen it. Mr Still, who has a few years on you both in age and collecting experience, has doubts about it's authenticity, also without having seen it. I'm going to have to put my money on Still. By the way, Jan Still cares about others, too. He doesn't like to see luger collectors being taken advantage of. I know that I am going to get flak about picking on a kid, however, Brandon, if you want to run with the big dogs you got to take your licks. Good Hunting,

08-09-2002, 01:27 AM	#25
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Well All, I think I started this post with a simple attempt to give some of us a chance to meet "socially" at the the up-coming Reno gun show. I think we will have a small group of Forum folks meeting on Saturday, 8-17-02 near the Shattuck table at noon. Herb, Jim, and Dr. Fisher and me; I think that is our head count for now...Looking forward to meeting all Forum folks who can join us !!! p.s. Does anyone know what the Reno gun show sponsors say about using cameras during the show ? Are they allowed ?

08-09-2002, 01:31 AM	#26
edgedealer User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hawthorne,Ca Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Brandon, I agree with Garfield, your enthusiasm and your interest in the Luger pistol is quite refreshing.There are not enough younger collectors in our field. I know my 6 year old is quite interested in guns and knives, the same way I was when I was growing up. I have been in this business of buying and selling firearms and edged weapons my entire life. Through observing and listening to many collectors over the years, as well as handling thousands of guns, you retain information. You also learn about people in general. I am glad you got to see the carbine, I do not doubt it looks good, probably a fancy display case too.There are many of us in the business who do not need to see this gun to make up our minds.The amount of questions I,and others, would have concerning this gun would not be answered. I am afraid the answers would become a fiction story. I have been told that the story of how the gun surfaced has changed?? On a personal note to you, Keep up your enthusiasm, you could not have picked a finer gun to appreciate.

08-09-2002, 10:36 AM	#27
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	[quote]I know that I am going to get flak about picking on a kid, however, Brandon, if you want to run with the big dogs you got to take your licks.<hr></blockquote> I don't know why you think you are going to get flak. Your posts pretty well describe your attitude!!

08-09-2002, 11:10 AM	#28
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi Frank, I know Garfield very well and share tables with him at the Kansas City show twice a year. We visit on the phone regularly and I can assure you that he gives flak to EVERYONE, but only if he likes you. He is arrogant, grumpy, grouchy, and just plain MEAN, but very knowledgeable. Just kidding! Actually he is a very good guy and one of my best buddies, and if you get to know him, you will appreciate him. Garfield, will be looking at the 1908 commercial military this weekend as the guy that got it will bring it up for me to verify. Will let you know the details.

08-09-2002, 11:12 AM	#29
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Garfield: [QB] It is not Mr. Still's mission in life to travel to AZ to inspect this 45 caliber luger carbine. Nor should he be expected to travel to some distant gun show to view it's contenence. [QB]<hr></blockquote> Actually I don't think I've "missed the point"! The point is, Jan is criticizing something before he's even saw it! That is a bad practice to be in! You could very well make yourself look like an idiot playing that game! Jan should either go see it and be able to base his criticism on something or just keep quiet IMHO! With Respect always! Brandon...

08-09-2002, 05:02 PM	#32
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hey Bill, Thanks for the description of your pal Garfield. It is appreciated. I never questioned GarfieldÃ¢??s knowledge, just his MANNERS. [quote]I know Garfield very well and share tables with him at the Kansas City show twice a year. We visit on the phone regularly and I can assure you that he gives flak to EVERYONE, but only if he likes you. He is arrogant, grumpy, grouchy, and just plain MEAN, but very knowledgeable. Just kidding!<hr></blockquote> My motto is Ã¢??if you canÃ¢??t take it donÃ¢??t dish it outÃ¢?Â, so based on your words he must be really thick skinned. IÃ¢??ll be on the alert!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

08-09-2002, 05:49 PM	#33
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Brandon, I think its good that such a young Luger collector is posting on the Forum. Below are two of your postings on the Forum prior to your seeing the .45 carbine at Kansas City on 07/27/02. Brandon 05/29/02: "I stand behind Ralph 100%! I not only think the .45 carbine is real, but I would buy it in a heartbeat if I had the money! These are my thoughts on the subject!" Brandon 06/05/02:"You are all so jealous of Ralph you can't stand it ....... are all just a bunch of whining babies!!!!!!!!!!" Your posting on the Form concerning the fact that Jan Still didn't travel to a gun show to see the .45 carbine. Brandon 08/09/02: "The point is, Jan is criticizing something before he's even saw it! That is a bad practice to be in! You could very well make yourself look like an idiot playing that game! Jan should either go see it and be able to base his criticism on something or just keep quiet IMHO!" Brandon, I dont think that you intended to imply, that it is OK for supporters of the .45 carbine to pass judgement "100%" without seeing it? But, if others suggest honest critical questions it's a bad practice and they are in danger of looking like an idiot. You may want to modify your post. Brandon are you speaking for yourself or are you speaking for the seller? Jan PS: Please read my posts. Trust what I say, not what others think I say.

08-09-2002, 05:55 PM	#34
edgedealer User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hawthorne,Ca Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Brandon, There is much to teach you about this business. Someone like Jan Still, keep in mind he's written excellent books on these guns,can look at a photo and make a determination one way or the other. When you handle guns all the time you learn what to look for.The pics on the website are good enough to make that point. Your loyalty to "grandpa" is strong. But do not shout or throw stones at other authorities in the field who doubt what he is telling you. when you talk to him again, ask him who he considers experts in the field to determine the authenticity of the gun. I KNOW the whole forum would love to see his list of EXPERTS

08-09-2002, 05:59 PM	#35
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frank: And one of my mottos is: "When in Rome......

08-09-2002, 07:44 PM	#36
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jan, I think we all owe Ralph the benefit of the doubt! Sure I beleve Ralph, but if he is PROVEN wrong, who am I to disagree? To answer your question I am speaking for myself! Ralph has never told me what to or what not to say! Jan, I have nothing against you or anyone on this forum! I have learned a LOT from your books and some of your posts! I have also learned that no one is always right! I just see things a little bit differently sometimes! If I'm wrong for this then I'm just wrong! Kind Regards!... [img]smile.gif[/img] Brandon...

08-09-2002, 10:19 PM	#37
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Garfield, I thought you were a little SE of Nome!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

08-09-2002, 10:36 PM	#38
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frank: Curse me for a lout! Hit the wrong key! Meant to say, "When in Nome, do as the Nomads do.". Anyway, I am certain that you get the drift.

08-10-2002, 02:30 AM	#39
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Garfield: Or perhaps "When in Nome, do as the Gnomes do!!!" [img]smile.gif[/img]