My P08 model 42 is suffering from jams :( - Page 2

AGE · 10-28-2003, 12:40 PM

Sieger,

Both of my Lugers are 100% if reasonably clean. Even if quite dirty, adding a couple of drops of oil in the frame bolt track restores operation back to 100% for at least another 100 rounds--all with Winchester ammo.

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-28-2003, 09:45 PM

Wow. SO many things to try. Two new mags are on the way, so that step is done. I am wondering how the extractor spring has anything to do with this since the exmpty shells are being ejected darn well and being thrown fairly far. I might want to get an extractor spring for spares and stry swapping it out as aonther test. Thanks for all the help guys! The luger is a multi-variable that will take a lot of tinkering to get working. Typical German design.

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-28-2003, 09:45 PM

Nuts.. I hit the "add reply" button twice. I wasted a few precious bits on your hard drive.

[[Normally I would delete it, but enjoyed your remarks

Ed}}

Sieger · 10-29-2003, 12:55 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:
Wow. SO many things to try. Two new mags are on the way, so that step is done. I am wondering how the extractor spring has anything to do with this since the exmpty shells are being ejected darn well and being thrown fairly far. I might want to get an extractor spring for spares and stry swapping it out as aonther test. Thanks for all the help guys! The luger is a multi-variable that will take a lot of tinkering to get working. Typical German design.<hr /></blockquote>This is a pretty good analogy.

I see the Luger as a Porsche 928S and the Browning 1911 as an Impala SS. Both are fast, but one is a lot harder to get running properly.

Sieger

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 11-02-2003, 07:49 PM

Well guys, my problems are ALMOST solved. I tried the new mags and the last round left the toggle open about half the time. So, I tried shooting one round from a mag with a stiff armed grip and a loose armed grip. The loose grip never kept the toggle back and the stiffer grip posture allowed the toggle to stay back about 70% of the time. This tells me I almost have it licked. Time to adjust the next variable, and it will work perfectly. All this was done using Wolf ammo. So, should I try replacing the main spring, or try Winchester ammo? I suppose it's easier to get some Winchester ammo and test run it first. Do you guys know whether or not Wolf ammo is weaker or stronger than average. This P08 is right on the verge of being tuned up.

JonS/42 · 11-03-2003, 03:45 PM

Darivs, John Martz SPECIFICALLY recommends using Winchester ammunition, because in his experience their primer placement is such to preclude breech/bolt damage. I usually use the 115gr Walmart 100-round Value-Pack; quality is excellent, as is the price. I'm not a big fan of Wolf-I've had problems with it, I'm not real comfortable in the certainty of the steel cases smoothly extracting, and the stuff has a really obnoxious odor.

JonS/42 · 11-03-2003, 03:47 PM

Also, incidentally, my hold-open rarely works with the Walmart ammo-I think because it's slightly lower power that the standard 9mm loading. I really don't worry about it.

Sieger · 11-03-2003, 07:47 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JonS/42:
Darivs, John Martz SPECIFICALLY recommends using Winchester ammunition, because in his experience their primer placement is such to preclude breech/bolt damage. <hr /></blockquote>Dear Jon:

John Martz is certainly an expert on the Parabellum System, but this is an interesting, yet, very confusing, comment. Perhaps John just adjusts his fine handmade pistols to function best with Winchester ammo.

How could Winchester be placing them differently than, let's say, Remington? Under 33,000 to 35,000 pounds of pressure, any primer will move to the rear.

Sieger

Sieger · 11-03-2003, 07:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:
Do you guys know whether or not Wolf ammo is weaker or stronger than average. This P08 is right on the verge of being tuned up.<hr /></blockquote>Hi:

I won't shoot their stuff in any of my guns. I have found it vastly underpowered in my rifles and prone to malfunctions, and smokey, in my pistols.

If you will not be reloading for your pistol, you might try a box of Remington 124gr. FMJ.

Sieger

Dwight Gruber · 11-03-2003, 09:28 PM

FWIW Remington does nothing but jam in my Lugers, same with Speer.

My best luck is with Walmart Winchester, Sellier & Bellot, and CCI Blazer.

The indoor range I shoot at has banned Wolf.

--Dwight

Sieger · 11-03-2003, 11:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
FWIW Remington does nothing but jam in my Lugers, same with Speer.

My best luck is with Walmart Winchester, Sellier & Bellot, and CCI Blazer.

The indoor range I shoot at has banned Wolf.

--Dwight<hr /></blockquote>Dwight:

I gave up on the commercial stuff about 25 years ago. I handload everything that I shoot through my Lugers, and they all work perfectly, just like they were designed to.

What is a reliable load? To me, it is one that can be fired 1,000 times without a malfunction. I don't think there is any commercial ammo currently available that will perform to that standard. Even with the perfect load, commercial ammo is loaded just too short to properly feed through the clip.

Sieger

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 11-04-2003, 03:47 AM

It's pretty sad that commercial ammo is so light. How expensive is a reloading setup or can I buy appropriately loaded ammo from one of you guys?

Doubs · 11-04-2003, 12:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:
It's pretty sad that commercial ammo is so light. How expensive is a reloading setup or can I buy appropriately loaded ammo from one of you guys?<hr /></blockquote>Darivs, it's illegal to sell reloaded ammo to anyone unless the reloader has a manufacturer's license. You can invest a little - or a lot - in a reloading setup. If you decide to go that way (and it's the best way IMO) you'll want to do a good bit of research before buying anything. Everything from a single stage press to a progressive reloader will do fine. You have to decide how serious you want to get.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 11-04-2003, 01:25 PM

John Martz told me he like Winchester ammo because he thought the primers were thicker than the rest.
Lonnie

Sieger · 11-04-2003, 01:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
John Martz told me he like Winchester ammo because he thought the primers were thicker than the rest.
Lonnie<hr /></blockquote>Lonnie:

This would be real easy to check.

I have always heared that CCI made the "hardest" primers.

Sometimes, a Luger will pierce a soft primer(a Remington for instance). You have to pay a little attention to the condition of the very tip of the firing pin.

Sieger

Dipp · 11-10-2003, 07:15 PM

Hi guys, I have a Luger that was jamming almost every time, another mag worked fine so obviously it was the mag. Now get this......... a gun smith I know told me to close up the throat (where the bullet rest) a little on the offending mag. I measured them both with some calipers, the bad one was open wider. I close it up to match the good one only .010 of an inch. It was like magic, I couldn't beleive it. That mag never jammed again. It was letting the bullet ride a little to high so when the bolt slammed it forward it was hitting at the top of the chamber. Rarely is it the ammo, usually something with the mag. Hope this helps someone, Dipp

Sieger · 11-10-2003, 07:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dipp:
Hi guys, I have a Luger that was jamming almost every time, another mag worked fine so obviously it was the mag. Now get this......... a gun smith I know told me to close up the throat (where the bullet rest) a little on the offending mag. I measured them both with some calipers, the bad one was open wider. I close it up to match the good one only .010 of an inch.
It was like magic, I couldn't beleive it. That mag never jammed again. It was letting the bullet ride a little to high so when the bolt slammed it forward it was hitting at the top of the chamber. Rarely is it the ammo, usually something with the mag. Hope this helps someone, Dipp<hr /></blockquote>Dipp:

I'm glad that finding that your magazine was not in spec. cured your problem. It must have been off by quite a bit. Over the years, magazines have been blamed for quite a few Luger problems.

My Lugers will not give reliable function with any magazine with ammo that is not in spec. With ammo in spec. I have fired 1,000 rounds straight without any malfunction.

Sieger

AGE · 11-10-2003, 11:39 PM

Guys,

I had a similar experience with my 9 mm Colt 1911. I was having double feeds and lots of crazy malfunctions with one magazine. Also, sometimes the slide wouldn't lock back when empty with that magazine. Lots of examination showed that the top round in that magazine had a lot of side play at the nose while there was very little side movement in other magazines. I squeezed the top front of this magazine with pliers until it was very snug against the follower. This eliminated the side play in the top round and resulted in perfect function for the last few hundred rounds.

10-28-2003, 12:40 PM	#21
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sieger, Both of my Lugers are 100% if reasonably clean. Even if quite dirty, adding a couple of drops of oil in the frame bolt track restores operation back to 100% for at least another 100 rounds--all with Winchester ammo. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

10-28-2003, 09:45 PM	#22
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow. SO many things to try. Two new mags are on the way, so that step is done. I am wondering how the extractor spring has anything to do with this since the exmpty shells are being ejected darn well and being thrown fairly far. I might want to get an extractor spring for spares and stry swapping it out as aonther test. Thanks for all the help guys! The luger is a multi-variable that will take a lot of tinkering to get working. Typical German design. __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-28-2003, 09:45 PM	#23
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nuts.. I hit the "add reply" button twice. I wasted a few precious bits on your hard drive. [[Normally I would delete it, but enjoyed your remarks Ed}} __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-29-2003, 12:55 AM	#24
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS: <strong>Wow. SO many things to try. Two new mags are on the way, so that step is done. I am wondering how the extractor spring has anything to do with this since the exmpty shells are being ejected darn well and being thrown fairly far. I might want to get an extractor spring for spares and stry swapping it out as aonther test. Thanks for all the help guys! The luger is a multi-variable that will take a lot of tinkering to get working. Typical German design.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">This is a pretty good analogy. I see the Luger as a Porsche 928S and the Browning 1911 as an Impala SS. Both are fast, but one is a lot harder to get running properly. Sieger

11-02-2003, 07:49 PM	#25
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well guys, my problems are ALMOST solved. I tried the new mags and the last round left the toggle open about half the time. So, I tried shooting one round from a mag with a stiff armed grip and a loose armed grip. The loose grip never kept the toggle back and the stiffer grip posture allowed the toggle to stay back about 70% of the time. This tells me I almost have it licked. Time to adjust the next variable, and it will work perfectly. All this was done using Wolf ammo. So, should I try replacing the main spring, or try Winchester ammo? I suppose it's easier to get some Winchester ammo and test run it first. Do you guys know whether or not Wolf ammo is weaker or stronger than average. This P08 is right on the verge of being tuned up. __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

11-03-2003, 03:45 PM	#26
JonS/42 User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Auburn, WA USA Posts: 32 Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	Darivs, John Martz SPECIFICALLY recommends using Winchester ammunition, because in his experience their primer placement is such to preclude breech/bolt damage. I usually use the 115gr Walmart 100-round Value-Pack; quality is excellent, as is the price. I'm not a big fan of Wolf-I've had problems with it, I'm not real comfortable in the certainty of the steel cases smoothly extracting, and the stuff has a really obnoxious odor.

11-03-2003, 03:47 PM	#27
JonS/42 User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Auburn, WA USA Posts: 32 Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	Also, incidentally, my hold-open rarely works with the Walmart ammo-I think because it's slightly lower power that the standard 9mm loading. I really don't worry about it.

11-03-2003, 07:47 PM	#28
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by JonS/42: <strong>Darivs, John Martz SPECIFICALLY recommends using Winchester ammunition, because in his experience their primer placement is such to preclude breech/bolt damage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dear Jon: John Martz is certainly an expert on the Parabellum System, but this is an interesting, yet, very confusing, comment. Perhaps John just adjusts his fine handmade pistols to function best with Winchester ammo. How could Winchester be placing them differently than, let's say, Remington? Under 33,000 to 35,000 pounds of pressure, any primer will move to the rear. Sieger

11-03-2003, 07:53 PM	#29
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS: <strong>Do you guys know whether or not Wolf ammo is weaker or stronger than average. This P08 is right on the verge of being tuned up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi: I won't shoot their stuff in any of my guns. I have found it vastly underpowered in my rifles and prone to malfunctions, and smokey, in my pistols. If you will not be reloading for your pistol, you might try a box of Remington 124gr. FMJ. Sieger

11-03-2003, 09:28 PM	#30
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,305 Times in 429 Posts	FWIW Remington does nothing but jam in my Lugers, same with Speer. My best luck is with Walmart Winchester, Sellier & Bellot, and CCI Blazer. The indoor range I shoot at has banned Wolf. --Dwight

11-03-2003, 11:20 PM	#31
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dwight Gruber: <strong>FWIW Remington does nothing but jam in my Lugers, same with Speer. My best luck is with Walmart Winchester, Sellier & Bellot, and CCI Blazer. The indoor range I shoot at has banned Wolf. --Dwight</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dwight: I gave up on the commercial stuff about 25 years ago. I handload everything that I shoot through my Lugers, and they all work perfectly, just like they were designed to. What is a reliable load? To me, it is one that can be fired 1,000 times without a malfunction. I don't think there is any commercial ammo currently available that will perform to that standard. Even with the perfect load, commercial ammo is loaded just too short to properly feed through the clip. Sieger

11-04-2003, 03:47 AM	#32
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's pretty sad that commercial ammo is so light. How expensive is a reloading setup or can I buy appropriately loaded ammo from one of you guys? __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

11-04-2003, 12:42 PM	#33
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,695 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,677 Times in 551 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS: <strong>It's pretty sad that commercial ammo is so light. How expensive is a reloading setup or can I buy appropriately loaded ammo from one of you guys?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Darivs, it's illegal to sell reloaded ammo to anyone unless the reloader has a manufacturer's license. You can invest a little - or a lot - in a reloading setup. If you decide to go that way (and it's the best way IMO) you'll want to do a good bit of research before buying anything. Everything from a single stage press to a progressive reloader will do fine. You have to decide how serious you want to get.

11-04-2003, 01:25 PM	#34
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John Martz told me he like Winchester ammo because he thought the primers were thicker than the rest. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

11-04-2003, 01:46 PM	#35
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman: <strong>John Martz told me he like Winchester ammo because he thought the primers were thicker than the rest. Lonnie</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Lonnie: This would be real easy to check. I have always heared that CCI made the "hardest" primers. Sometimes, a Luger will pierce a soft primer(a Remington for instance). You have to pay a little attention to the condition of the very tip of the firing pin. Sieger

11-10-2003, 07:15 PM	#36
Dipp User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southeast USA Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi guys, I have a Luger that was jamming almost every time, another mag worked fine so obviously it was the mag. Now get this......... a gun smith I know told me to close up the throat (where the bullet rest) a little on the offending mag. I measured them both with some calipers, the bad one was open wider. I close it up to match the good one only .010 of an inch. It was like magic, I couldn't beleive it. That mag never jammed again. It was letting the bullet ride a little to high so when the bolt slammed it forward it was hitting at the top of the chamber. Rarely is it the ammo, usually something with the mag. Hope this helps someone, Dipp __________________ Dipp

11-10-2003, 07:42 PM	#37
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dipp: <strong>Hi guys, I have a Luger that was jamming almost every time, another mag worked fine so obviously it was the mag. Now get this......... a gun smith I know told me to close up the throat (where the bullet rest) a little on the offending mag. I measured them both with some calipers, the bad one was open wider. I close it up to match the good one only .010 of an inch. It was like magic, I couldn't beleive it. That mag never jammed again. It was letting the bullet ride a little to high so when the bolt slammed it forward it was hitting at the top of the chamber. Rarely is it the ammo, usually something with the mag. Hope this helps someone, Dipp</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dipp: I'm glad that finding that your magazine was not in spec. cured your problem. It must have been off by quite a bit. Over the years, magazines have been blamed for quite a few Luger problems. My Lugers will not give reliable function with any magazine with ammo that is not in spec. With ammo in spec. I have fired 1,000 rounds straight without any malfunction. Sieger

11-10-2003, 11:39 PM	#38
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys, I had a similar experience with my 9 mm Colt 1911. I was having double feeds and lots of crazy malfunctions with one magazine. Also, sometimes the slide wouldn't lock back when empty with that magazine. Lots of examination showed that the top round in that magazine had a lot of side play at the nose while there was very little side movement in other magazines. I squeezed the top front of this magazine with pliers until it was very snug against the follower. This eliminated the side play in the top round and resulted in perfect function for the last few hundred rounds. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member