French Luger???

[cirelaw]

THIS IS ERIC, AKA SNOOKEM13@AOL.COM, I AM PURCHASING THE 1906 FRENCH LUGER FROM TOM AT PHOENIX AND JAN STILLS SAID I COULD TRUST TOM AND JOE, THEY HAVE BY FAR, ONE OF THE BEST LUGER SITES AND HAVE SEVERAL RARE LUGERS, THEY ARE SELLING MY TWO 192O COMMERCIALS TO DEFRAY MY PURCHASE ON THE FRENCH BEAUTY, EMAIL ME OR CHECK OUT "PHOENIXINVESTMENTARMS.COM" ERIC BRUNING, ESQ, PORT ST. LUCIE, FLORIDA

[cirelaw]

THIS IS ERIC AKA SNOOKEM13@AOL.COM, THE FUTURE PURCHASER OF THE 1906 FRENCH LUGER, I WAS INCORRECT AS TO MY COMMENT REGGARDING, JAN STILLS AND THE 1906, IT WAS INSTEAD, RALPH SHADDAK, WHO TOLD ME TO GO AND TRUST JOE AND TOM AT "PHOENIXINVESTMARTARMS.COM, ALTHOUGH JAN PROBOBLY AGREES TOO, SORRY I HAD A STROKE AND COMA 2 YEARS AGO IN COSTA RICA, AND STILL EXPERIENCE AN OCCASIONAL "BRAIN FART" FROM TIME TO TIME, CHECK OUT "COMARECOVERY.COM" LOOK UP "COMA WAKE UP CALLS", MY COMA RECOVERY SAGA, AND I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST AND REMEMBER, A SMILE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN A BULLET, ERIC,esq.

[LU1900]

Hello alls
I just indicate that on the bottom of the frame there is a "french" number stamped :Manufacture Fran�§aise code
N�°45425 in 30 :2209
N�°47601 in 9mm:115
Regards Pat

[Vlim]

Hi,

Although I haven't found other sources, the reason for the French Parabellum appears to be a legal matter.

DWM mentioned in their corporate history that they set up a French company, producing ball-bearings. These ball-bearings were an important on-the-side business for them. An interesting bit of info was that DWM's main reason for setting up a French production line was patent rights:

French law in those days only allowed registration and protection of patents for designs that were made in France.

It's not very difficult to think that the creation of the 'French Parabellum' via Manufuracture D'armes es Cycles was just a simple and effective way to register and protect the Parabellum design in France.

Why they chose this particular French firm is not known to me. It would have made more sense for them to use their own French ball-bearing company as 'creator' of the French Parabellum. I'm confident that this 'Manufacture D'armes et Cycles' was one of DWM's customers, purchasing ball-bearings and cycle parts (also produced on the side by DWM).

It would be nice to find a French local who can verify this strange French patent law.

[cirelaw]

HI, THIS IS ERIC BRUNING, THE RETIRED AND TWISTED FORMER/COMA CLOSE CALL ATTY IND PSL, FLA., I SPENT 2 SUMMERS LIVING IN BAYONNE FRANCE WITH A BASQUE FAMILY "BRUNO DUCLOS" I CORRUPTED THAT WHOLE TOWN IN 1979,ANYWAY BRUNO"S FATHER HAD A OMINIOUS LUGER HIDDEN, NEXT TO HIS WINE, IF ANYBODY WHO READS THIS CAN LOCATE MY OLD "FRENCH/BASQUE" BUDDY, I WOULD BE MOST GRATEFUL,HIS MOTHER WORKED IN THE TOWN POST OFFICE. DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE 1906 CASE OR MANUAL??? ERIC 772-336-5312, I STILL DO FREE WILLS FOR FRIENDS

[Pete Ebbink]

French luger # 51872 for sale again...(...or still...?). I do not know who the A-A seller is...

This one was previously listed for sale with Shattuck/Etwoski at WOL/PIA...see postings, above.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=6737354

Photos from A-A :

[Pete Ebbink]

[ROLLAND]

In the city of Saint Etienne there was two weapons plants
-The MAS (Manufacture d'Armes de St. Etienne) was a State Plant wh�¨re was made military guns:rifles-MAS 36,MAS 49 and 49/56, and more recent the FAMAS actual french army rifles in 5,56 mmcal.revolvers:Mod.73(cal 11mm),Mod.92(cal8mm) pistols:MAS 35S(cal 7,65mmLong),MAS 5O(cal.9mm para) and MAS G1(cal 9mmpara)acopy of Beretta 92FS
-MANUFRANCE(Manufacture d'Armes et de Cycles de St.Etienne)was a commercial Pland wh�¨re was made rifles and pistols "Le Fran�§ais" cal. 6,35mm, 7,65mm and 9mm Browning Long. This company sells also many other pistols for the civil market before WW1 and between WW1 and WW2 like Borwning mod.19OO(7,65 Br.), Walther, Mause C96 (7,63mm Parabellum(7,65mm and 9 mm) and used to inscribe on the barrel"Manufacture d'Armes et de Cycles de Saint Etienne"but the weapons were not made in France.The parabellum was made by DWM.
This company was closed 25 years ago. The only PO8 made by French in occupied Germany was made in 1945 and 46;it has Mauser marks byf, has a star inscribe on the frame and is phosphated.Many P38 have the same history,finish and the star. They were in use in the French Army and Gendarmerie many years until the MAS 5O appears. Sorry for my bad english. Bests regards from Corsica. Andr�© ROLLAND

[John Sabato]

Andr�© Rolland,

Bonjour...

Welcome to the Lugerforum, and thank you for the history lesson. I believe that you are our only member who lives in Corsica.

Do the same gun laws apply to Corsica as apply in France on the mainland?

I know that gun laws on UK territorial islands are not as restrictive as they are in Great Britain...

It is not necessary to apologize for your English... There are not that many of us who could communicate with you in French... We welcome your input.

[ROLLAND]

Hi John,I think that I'm the only Corsican on this forum.The same gun law is applied in Corsica and on the mainland:the difference is that the law in general and especially gun law is very difficult to be respected h�¨re ;any man have many guns!! The Island (26OOOO people) knaws big problems with local terrorism;each year,since 1975, between 3OO to 6OO bombing destructions are made by differents terrorists groups(political or racket) and also many homicides (35 to 60 by year). These problems in facts are the result of the determination of 1/4 of the local population to impose at the French State the independance of Corsica.In spite of this situation the live in this Island is very pleasant with a sunny weather.We have many shooting ranges and we practice especially handgun shooting. If you have to come in France don't believe to flight for Corsica(less than 2 hours flight between Paris and Ajaccio birth place of Napol�©on! You Welcome. Andr�©

[cirelaw]

HI ERIC BRUNING, ESQ, I OWN THE 1906 FRENCH'ARMES LUGER SERIAL #51872, WHAT IS CONFUSING UNTIL I ASKED MY ONLY FRIEND, IS RALPH, FIRST OFF, SEEING THING FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, IS THAT JUST WALKING IN TO A SHOW, MY 'FRENCHY' IS BAR FAR THE GREATEST LITMUS TEST, REMEMBER, I PICKED JURYS, FOR OVER 25 YEARS, WHEN THEY ASK, FIRSTHOW MUCH YOU ASKIN? ITS PROBOLY, THE SAME WAY, THEY BOUGHT THEIR WFE, EVERY ONE WHO, ASK, 'HOW MUCH, INSTEAD OF ASKING THE DEALER, 'WOULD YOU PLEASE HAVE A MOMENT TO DISLAY THE ARTIFACT,LUGERS THISS RARE,ARE PURCHASED WITH DIFFENT QUESTIONS,HERE AN EXAPLE OF 'WHAT SAID,' OH MY UNCLE SAY ONE IN GUNBROKER, AND THERES LOOKED BETTER, OR CHEEPER, IGNORE HIM, MY FIRST SHOWING OF FRECHY, WAS IN PALM BEACH, AS IN ALL SHOWS, THERES ONE GROUP/COUTERIE OF A "NAZI TABLE" WHICH SAID BEFORE ASKING, THE GRIPS ARE WRONG, BEING A NEOPHYTE, I ASKED RALPH, HE WARNED ME,'HOW MANY SUNBATHERS, HAD EVER FELT OR SAW THE WORKMENSHIP IN THE WOOD ALONE/ I CAN ONY USE ONE FINGER, TO TYPE MY MESSAGE, BUT I WAS REMINDED, WHILE COMING FROM MY PROTECTIVE HEALING STANCE, THAT USE WHAT YOU ALWAYS HAD, BUT NEVER RELIED, I,E THE POWER OF ONE FIGER, TO TYPE, START ONE WAR, OR END ANOTHER, EMAIL ERIC AT 'SNOOKEM13@AOL, ILL SEND PICS ETC 772-336-5312 IM TOO TIRED FOR SPELL CHECK, I JUST HAD RT ROTTATOR SURGERY, GOD BLESS OUR UNION

[cirelaw]

ERIC HERE, TYPICAL EXESQ, IM OWED BY YOUR INSIGT, I LL READ YOUR ENTIRE WORK TONIGHT, IM STILL TRING TO FIND OUT WHERE THE FRECH IN HERROTINS BOOK EXISTED, MAYBE 2 VARIATION, W/WO BURST, TKS AGAIN, ED AND ALL YOU FOLKS ARE THE BEST, NOT YELLING, AND REINSTTING, AS RALPH, MY PRIDE, AS TEARS DRIP

[cirelaw]

bonjour messer cosica, je achete le 1906 pictured above, are you aware the presence of 'charge' both on the 1906 and 1903, et jai livere messurs herotins book avec un picture or drawing of the 'sunburst' i dont parle' francais, but as courtesie and a stepchild par vitre, its a pleasure hearingg from you,great minds seek truth, un queste , jamais complet s.v.p. email mess-up ERIC BRUNING,772-336-5312 OF SNOOKEM13@AOL.COM, FOR THE 1903 WITH APPROVAL

[Ron Wood]

Eric,
I am not sure if I am interpreting your question correctly. To the best of my knowledge, only the 1903 French transitional Luger and one solitary example of a 1906 Commercial Luger with a fleur-de-lis chamber marking have the CHARGÃ?? marked extractors. I believe that the 1906 model Lugers with the 'Manufacture Francais d'Armes & Cycles de Saint-Etienne' barrel marking were standard Commercial models with a GELADEN marked extractor. The barrel markings were applied in France by the importer/distributer and not at the factory.

[Vlim]

Hi,

I recently purchased a 1907-1908 Manufacture Francaise sales brochure with about 600 pages of firearms, ammunition and accessories. It seems MF was big enough to order 'brand labeled' firearms from just about any supplier, including DWM.

Fascinatingly the 1907-1908 brochure does NOT list the Parabellum, nor the standard Parabellum rounds (9mm and .30 luger). They do appear in the 1910 MF catalog, so introduction was somewhere between 1908 and 1910.

[John Sabato]

That "import mark" on the barrels makes them valueless as collector items right Ron?

[Ron Wood]

Man, you had me going there for a second...until I saw the "evil grin" at the end of the sentence!

[cirelaw]

HI ERIC, ESQ SURVIVING ANOTHERSTORM, HAVING LIVED THOUGH A STOKE, COMA,AND MOST, THE INSIGHT IVE DERIVED, PRACING TRIAL LAW BEFORE MY STOKE, I OWN MON FRACIAS 'REAL AS ARE THE OTHERS, IF YOU NOTICE THE FEW OWNER KNOW THE FEEL, THE GRIP AND THE MARKING, SR #51872 BUT EVEYONE IS MISSING PART OF THE HISTORY, THE 1906 FRENY, HAD A FATHER, THE 1903 PROTYPE, EVERY SHOULD NOTICE, NOT THE BARREL, BUT THE FRENCH WARNING, INSCRIBED ON EJECTOR, DE SEULMENT ONLY 2 VARITIES, THE FRENCH WORD FOR FIREABLE, 'CHARGE' ET I ASKED MY FRENH JOLIE, DOMONIQUE, 'WHY NOW AND SO FEW, COMMN SENCE, FIRSTT THE 2 MODELS THE 03 AND 06 WERE CIRCULATED TO A FEW FRECH GOVT OFFICIALS, SIMULAR TO THE EARLIER EAGLE, AND THOSE FEW WERE LOST CONVERTED OR HIDDEN IN SOME BASEMENT, YOU THING OLD HINEY HEAD, WOULD HAVE ALLOWED THE FRENCH TO OWN ONME OF THE FATHLANDS, THAT WHAT IVE LEARNED, BASIC, WHY BECAUE THE ONLY OTHER THAT IM AWAREIS THE 'ABERCHOMBIE' DISGUSE TOO FROM GERMAN DESENT, DROP A LINE ILL EMAIL BACK PLENTY OF PROOF, NOW PICKUP 'THE RED BOOK, CHECK BOTH LISTING FOR THE 03 & 06'CHARGE"

[cirelaw]

THANK RON, FOR MEDIATING, THIS DISSENTION, I LIKE THOSE WHO HAVE OWED THE FEW, SOFAR TO APPEAR, MUST CLOSLY EXAMINE THE GRIP, YOU KNOW THE TOUCHE' BECAUSE YOU HELD THE BEST, GOD BLESS ALL

[cirelaw]

RON, HOW DO YOU HAVE BEST PICTURES OF MY "FRENCHY" I WANT TO SET ONE THING STAIGHT,TOM AND ED, KNOW PROBLY MORE, THEN ONYONE OTHER THAN THE ICON'RALPH & JAN, FOR A MINAL MONTLY PAYMENT OF A COULE OF, IN MY PAST. DRINKIN MONEY, I OWN PRIDE, AND AFTER MY STOKE, COMA ETC, THE COUTERIE RESTORE MY FOCUS AND THE ONLY ONES, IN THE ENLISH SPEEKING WORD, TO TAKE MY CALLS, THAK ALSO TO THE REV & ONE OF THE TRUE, ICONS, WHOSE BEEN AROUND TO STACH AN ABERCROMIE ETAL FOR PROBLY $300, SO REMER THIS ELEVTH AMENMENT "THOU SHALT NOT COVETT THY NEIBORS' LUGER COLLECTION, ERIC 772-336-5312