LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > All P-08 Military Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 04-12-2012, 05:52 PM   #21
Vlim
Moderator
Lifetime
LugerForum Patron
 
Vlim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts
Default

About the 1920-1921 timeframe: Conrad Matschoss of the VDI was responsible for the book on the 50th anniversary of DWM in 1939 (actually most work was done by Fr. Hassler). He wrote:

Ein Auftrag der Reichswehr und Sicherheitspolizei auf 40.000 Selbstladepistolen gab einem Teil der Waffenfabrik bis Mai 1921 Arbeit. Gegenüber den Mengen, die vor dem Krieg und vor allem im Krieg hergestellt wurden, waren dies zwar recht bescheidene Zahlen, aber sie hatten doch für die Firma außerordentlich wertvolle Bedeutung. Damit konnten nicht nur manche Maschinen wieder in Betrieb genommen, sondern vor allem auch ein Teil der Facharbeiter für Waffen und Munition wieder eingestellt und dem Unternehmen erhalten werden.


Roughly translated:

An order of the Reichswehr and Security police for 40.000 pistols provided work to a part of the weapons factory until May, 1921. It was a limited number compared to the numbers produced before and during the war, but it was exceptionally worthwile for the factory. Many machines could be taken back in production and also a part of the specialized work force for weapons and munitions production could be rehired and saved for the company.
Vlim is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Vlim for your post:
Unread 04-17-2012, 03:12 PM   #22
sej-gun
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 99
Thanks: 26
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Default

It was a new awareness for me, it confirms the theory (Don M) that this "n" block of P.08 really were made ​​in 1920. And not before, as I see it
Thank you for the information Vlim

reg. Jes
sej-gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-04-2013, 10:47 AM   #23
abzug
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 13
Thanks: 25
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Jes, here is another DWM 1920 "n" suffix police marked P.08 for your study:

Sn. 952n
grip strap property mark- S. Kg. 2(Xed). 96(Xed). 948. (Schutzpolizei Königsberg)
No sear safety or magazine safety installed
E/ArA4 inspection and proof stamps
fluted firing pin

The chamber appears to have been carefully ground, presumably to remove the existing date, and to facilitate stamping the 1920 date.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1920 DWM 952n. 2013-10-03_1.jpg
Views:	367
Size:	150.7 KB
ID:	36529  

Click image for larger version

Name:	1920 DWM 952n. 2013-10-03.jpg
Views:	350
Size:	158.8 KB
ID:	36531  

Attached Images
 

Last edited by abzug; 02-22-2014 at 02:59 PM.
abzug is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to abzug for your post:
Unread 10-07-2013, 07:57 PM   #24
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

A very nice pistol, James.
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-12-2013, 11:48 AM   #25
sej-gun
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 99
Thanks: 26
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Thanks James
I will add your Luger to the serial number schdule.
Very nice pic.
Regards Jes
sej-gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2017, 08:47 PM   #26
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Question

Let's resurrect another old thread with a new pistol in the "n" suffix series # 3218n;
but not with a 1920 date, but 1921 AND a 1920 property stamp.

This curious series and this seemingly out of sequence number continue to be an enigma.
I'm not sure this one will help elucidate and will perhaps only add to the confusion.

I "wanted" it as it was highly unusual to me to see a 1921 date with 1920 PS; only later I noticed it is an "n" suffix.

Obviously a police pistol, still with sear safety, had a mag safety which was removed and the slot welded and refinished. Pistol is matching except grips, and has #1/3218 magazine with */k inspection.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210094.jpg
Views:	332
Size:	180.4 KB
ID:	66384  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210096.jpg
Views:	369
Size:	156.9 KB
ID:	66385  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210102.jpg
Views:	346
Size:	173.9 KB
ID:	66386  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210098.jpg
Views:	329
Size:	131.7 KB
ID:	66388  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210106.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	85.4 KB
ID:	66389  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210105.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	191.0 KB
ID:	66390  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210093.jpg
Views:	361
Size:	96.7 KB
ID:	66391  

__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post:
Unread 06-25-2017, 11:12 AM   #27
sej-gun
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 99
Thanks: 26
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Absolutely an exciting P.08. Maybe there also is a police "n" block from 1921? Let's see what future reports will tell. Thank you for sharing it with us Don.
Reg. Jes/Sej-gun.
sej-gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-25-2017, 06:50 PM   #28
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
I'm not sure this one will help elucidate and will perhaps only add to the confusion.
Definitely the lattter!!
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-27-2017, 03:01 PM   #29
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

I'll venture a WAG on this one. Perhaps it was manufactured in 1920 and serial numbered along with other "n" block P08s but set aside before stamping date. It may then have been resurrected in 1921, date stamped and issued.

Dwight Gruber knows way more than I about DWM manufacturing procedures. His comments on this speculation would be most welcome.
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Don M for your post:
Unread 07-20-2017, 02:11 AM   #30
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,900
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,312 Times in 430 Posts
Default

I'm afraid that I don't have much useful to offer here.

According to the 1910 production specifications, which were adhered to through WWII, date stamping was one of the first manufacturing steps, and was certified by the first of the army acceptance stamps.

I will note that Sturgess (red edition, pp 530-533) asserts that the m and n suffix, 1920 dated pistols follow the army production m suffix sequence "where it (production) had stopped in December, 1918." There is more than one problem with this: he does not recognize that 1918 military pistols are reported into the s suffix range; and he proposes arduous backing-and-filling of serial numbering to justify his conclusion, to mention only two.

I am still cogitating on all this.

--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Dwight Gruber for your post:
Unread 07-20-2017, 01:59 PM   #31
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

Dwight, thanks for your observations. I was concerned that my proposed sequence of stamping steps was out of the ordinary. I share your skepticism about Sturgess' theory on the m and n suffixes (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-suffixes-HELP). I hope your cogitation yields something. I've about run dry!
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-25-2019, 03:14 PM   #32
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,929
Thanks: 2,028
Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts
Default

bring this subject back up, as it somehow got un-stickied and is an interesting subject
__________________
Edward Tinker
************
Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers
Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-22-2019, 06:54 PM   #33
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

Another one reported in https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...415#post888415
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Don M for your post:
Unread 02-17-2020, 12:00 AM   #34
gunnertwo
User
 
gunnertwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 621
Thanks: 821
Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts
Default

Late to the party, found this thread a few days ago.

Here's mine;

SN "373 n"

1920 on chamber (lightly stamped)

Sear safety present / mag safety removed

Three "Dove" stamps on right receiver

Front strap marked "S. B. 11667."

Came with a Haenel / Schmeisser mag, un-numbered with a police eagle stamp on bottom.
gunnertwo is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to gunnertwo for your post:
Unread 02-21-2020, 03:51 AM   #35
gunnertwo
User
 
gunnertwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 621
Thanks: 821
Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts
Default Images of Police 373 n

Attached are some images of the pistol.

G2
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0233.jpg
Views:	330
Size:	92.2 KB
ID:	78971  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0234.jpg
Views:	327
Size:	127.8 KB
ID:	78972  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0235.jpg
Views:	349
Size:	109.1 KB
ID:	78973  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0236.jpg
Views:	347
Size:	121.1 KB
ID:	78974  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0238.jpg
Views:	353
Size:	100.0 KB
ID:	78975  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0240.jpg
Views:	356
Size:	104.5 KB
ID:	78977  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0241.jpg
Views:	332
Size:	116.5 KB
ID:	78978  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0242.jpg
Views:	347
Size:	149.5 KB
ID:	78979  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0243.jpg
Views:	327
Size:	157.9 KB
ID:	78980  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0245.jpg
Views:	331
Size:	140.4 KB
ID:	78981  

gunnertwo is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to gunnertwo for your post:
Unread 02-21-2020, 03:45 PM   #36
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

Jes, have you developed any further conclusions about these guns?
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-21-2020, 06:36 PM   #37
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,900
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,312 Times in 430 Posts
Default

Greg,


Judging by the numerals and the engraved-looking n on the barrel, I suggest it is a replacement. Is there a proof mark?


--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-21-2020, 08:23 PM   #38
gunnertwo
User
 
gunnertwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 621
Thanks: 821
Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts
Default

Dwight,

There is a proof on top of the barrel but it's very lightly stamped making it difficult to discern. I'll take another look and see it it will photograph.

G2
gunnertwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-22-2020, 08:51 PM   #39
gunnertwo
User
 
gunnertwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 621
Thanks: 821
Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts
Default

I must make a correction to my post regarding the explaination on the proofs on 373 n. They are not the "dove" as I stated but are the "Eagle AyA4" markings. Three are on the left side of the barrel extension and one is on the breechblock.

Attached is a pic of the barrel proof. Dwight, does this answer your question on a barrel replacement?

I used my new iPhone 11 Pro Max to take these pics. Except for the poor lighting I'm amazed at the detail one gets with this camera. Thanks.

G2
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0252.jpg
Views:	344
Size:	75.7 KB
ID:	78990  

gunnertwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-24-2020, 02:19 PM   #40
Don M
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Don M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
Default

G2; The inspection stamps are actually ArA4 for Arüstungsamt 4. This office was later renamed Waffenamt 4.
__________________
Regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
http://www.historywritinsteel.com
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com