DWM 1920 "n" suffix research (Polizei)

[Vlim]

About the 1920-1921 timeframe: Conrad Matschoss of the VDI was responsible for the book on the 50th anniversary of DWM in 1939 (actually most work was done by Fr. Hassler). He wrote:

Ein Auftrag der Reichswehr und Sicherheitspolizei auf 40.000 Selbstladepistolen gab einem Teil der Waffenfabrik bis Mai 1921 Arbeit. Gegenüber den Mengen, die vor dem Krieg und vor allem im Krieg hergestellt wurden, waren dies zwar recht bescheidene Zahlen, aber sie hatten doch für die Firma außerordentlich wertvolle Bedeutung. Damit konnten nicht nur manche Maschinen wieder in Betrieb genommen, sondern vor allem auch ein Teil der Facharbeiter für Waffen und Munition wieder eingestellt und dem Unternehmen erhalten werden.

Roughly translated:

An order of the Reichswehr and Security police for 40.000 pistols provided work to a part of the weapons factory until May, 1921. It was a limited number compared to the numbers produced before and during the war, but it was exceptionally worthwile for the factory. Many machines could be taken back in production and also a part of the specialized work force for weapons and munitions production could be rehired and saved for the company.

[sej-gun]

It was a new awareness for me, it confirms the theory (Don M) that this "n" block of P.08 really were made ​​in 1920. And not before, as I see it
Thank you for the information Vlim

reg. Jes

[abzug]

Jes, here is another DWM 1920 "n" suffix police marked P.08 for your study:

Sn. 952n
grip strap property mark- S. Kg. 2(Xed). 96(Xed). 948. (Schutzpolizei Königsberg)
No sear safety or magazine safety installed
E/ArA4 inspection and proof stamps
fluted firing pin

The chamber appears to have been carefully ground, presumably to remove the existing date, and to facilitate stamping the 1920 date.

[Don M]

A very nice pistol, James.

[sej-gun]

Thanks James
I will add your Luger to the serial number schdule.
Very nice pic.
Regards Jes

[DonVoigt]

Let's resurrect another old thread with a new pistol in the "n" suffix series # 3218n;
but not with a 1920 date, but 1921 AND a 1920 property stamp.

This curious series and this seemingly out of sequence number continue to be an enigma.
I'm not sure this one will help elucidate and will perhaps only add to the confusion.

I "wanted" it as it was highly unusual to me to see a 1921 date with 1920 PS; only later I noticed it is an "n" suffix.

Obviously a police pistol, still with sear safety, had a mag safety which was removed and the slot welded and refinished. Pistol is matching except grips, and has #1/3218 magazine with */k inspection.

[sej-gun]

Absolutely an exciting P.08. Maybe there also is a police "n" block from 1921? Let's see what future reports will tell. Thank you for sharing it with us Don.
Reg. Jes/Sej-gun.

[Don M]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I'm not sure this one will help elucidate and will perhaps only add to the confusion.

Definitely the lattter!!

[Don M]

I'll venture a WAG on this one. Perhaps it was manufactured in 1920 and serial numbered along with other "n" block P08s but set aside before stamping date. It may then have been resurrected in 1921, date stamped and issued.

Dwight Gruber knows way more than I about DWM manufacturing procedures. His comments on this speculation would be most welcome.

[Dwight Gruber]

I'm afraid that I don't have much useful to offer here.

According to the 1910 production specifications, which were adhered to through WWII, date stamping was one of the first manufacturing steps, and was certified by the first of the army acceptance stamps.

I will note that Sturgess (red edition, pp 530-533) asserts that the m and n suffix, 1920 dated pistols follow the army production m suffix sequence "where it (production) had stopped in December, 1918." There is more than one problem with this: he does not recognize that 1918 military pistols are reported into the s suffix range; and he proposes arduous backing-and-filling of serial numbering to justify his conclusion, to mention only two.

I am still cogitating on all this.

--Dwight

[Don M]

Dwight, thanks for your observations. I was concerned that my proposed sequence of stamping steps was out of the ordinary. I share your skepticism about Sturgess' theory on the m and n suffixes (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-suffixes-HELP). I hope your cogitation yields something. I've about run dry!

[Edward Tinker]

bring this subject back up, as it somehow got un-stickied and is an interesting subject

[Don M]

Another one reported in https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...415#post888415

[gunnertwo]

Late to the party, found this thread a few days ago.

Here's mine;

SN "373 n"

1920 on chamber (lightly stamped)

Sear safety present / mag safety removed

Three "Dove" stamps on right receiver

Front strap marked "S. B. 11667."

Came with a Haenel / Schmeisser mag, un-numbered with a police eagle stamp on bottom.

[gunnertwo]

Attached are some images of the pistol.

G2

[Don M]

Jes, have you developed any further conclusions about these guns?

[Dwight Gruber]

Greg,


Judging by the numerals and the engraved-looking n on the barrel, I suggest it is a replacement. Is there a proof mark?


--Dwight

[gunnertwo]

Dwight,

There is a proof on top of the barrel but it's very lightly stamped making it difficult to discern. I'll take another look and see it it will photograph.

G2

[gunnertwo]

I must make a correction to my post regarding the explaination on the proofs on 373 n. They are not the "dove" as I stated but are the "Eagle AyA4" markings. Three are on the left side of the barrel extension and one is on the breechblock.

Attached is a pic of the barrel proof. Dwight, does this answer your question on a barrel replacement?

I used my new iPhone 11 Pro Max to take these pics. Except for the poor lighting I'm amazed at the detail one gets with this camera. Thanks.

G2

[Don M]

G2; The inspection stamps are actually ArA4 for Arüstungsamt 4. This office was later renamed Waffenamt 4.