my profile |
register |
faq |
search upload photo | donate | calendar |
01-18-2021, 08:53 PM | #21 |
User
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Northern Idaho
Posts: 84
Thanks: 2
Thanked 34 Times in 22 Posts
|
Wh at typically causes this; metal fatigue? Also, what would be the most likely cause of pierced primers; striker spring?
|
The following member says Thank You to grantman for your post: |
01-19-2021, 04:17 AM | #22 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chandler Arizona
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 1,318
Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts
|
Pin issues
Hi Grant, the two most common is, excessive headspace, and/or a deformed firing pin tip. (corroded, sharp point/edge) I'd say that covers about 99% of the pierce primer problems with factory ammo... best, GT
|
The following 2 members says Thank You to G.T. for your post: |
01-19-2021, 08:40 AM | #23 |
Moderator
Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts
|
The metallurgy of Erfurt parts also wasn't as good as DWM's. And even DWM had consistency issues with the steel they used.
Personally, I wouldn't shoot an Erfurt at all. |
The following 3 members says Thank You to Vlim for your post: |
01-19-2021, 09:52 AM | #24 |
User
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: NEW JERSEY
Posts: 143
Thanks: 117
Thanked 176 Times in 70 Posts
|
Never shot identical lugers built 100 years apart?
If i understand correctly metal fatigue accumulates with multiple bangs over period of time, correct? The shooting/use are the main culprits.
Is there any damaging structural chemical/physical process in an old gun's metal [ or any metal/alloy] even without any shooting or physical use? LET'S SAY THE SAME METALLURGY, FORGING , TOOLING, MACHINNING- THE IDENTICAL 2 GUNS MADE A 100 YEARS APART. NEVER SHOT. IS THE OLDER ONE MORE LIKELY TO BREAK SIMPLY FROM AGING? TY |
The following member says Thank You to STEINBVG for your post: |
01-19-2021, 10:43 AM | #25 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 286
Thanks: 681
Thanked 667 Times in 172 Posts
|
I got this 1937 S42 Mauser in 1982, it already had the breech block failure. All matching except for mag and grips, with a rough bore. It is my "shooter". Only one of my lugers I ever shoot.
|
The following member says Thank You to sdmark777 for your post: |
01-19-2021, 11:48 AM | #26 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 617
Thanks: 3,053
Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts
|
In theory the older gun is more susceptible to breakage due to the fact that metal crystalizes over age but in practice the amount of possible crystallization over 100 years would be considered negligible.
__________________
Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.
|
The following member says Thank You to spangy for your post: |
01-19-2021, 02:26 PM | #27 |
User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Central Wyoming, USA
Posts: 49
Thanks: 78
Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts
|
I shoot my Lugers as none are family heirlooms, specialty or mint. I have a WWI DWM that the GI had nickel plated with all numbers matching brought back that I purchased from the family and it functions just fine. I am the one that started this post and I plan on replacing the breech block and shooting the Erfurt on occasion is that a bad idea? I have a message and an e-mail into the "lugerdoc@charter.net" to see if he has one that matches the last 2 digits of the serial number. If he does not have one or I do not hear back I will either purchase a new one with no marks or a used non matching I have seen and replace the damaged one. if the majority of members suggest I not shoot it then it is no good to me and I guess I will sell it?
|
01-19-2021, 02:50 PM | #28 |
Moderator
Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts
|
I wonder if repairing by micro welding would work.
Technology has advanced quite a bit. |
The following member says Thank You to Vlim for your post: |
01-19-2021, 03:12 PM | #29 |
User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 834
Thanks: 778
Thanked 846 Times in 404 Posts
|
I have an all matching Erfurt LP.08 as a shooter, but it has been refinished. Even then, when I shoot my shooter Mauser P.08 (matching frame and upper receiver with mismatched Mauser toggle train) it just feels more solid and sturdy in the metallurgy.
__________________
-QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22 |
The following member says Thank You to HerrKaiser for your post: |
01-19-2021, 03:44 PM | #30 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: VA
Posts: 3,592
Thanks: 1,773
Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts
|
I keep two complete toggle trains in my gun safe, one a P08 and the other an LP08. Anytime I shoot one of my Lugers I first exchange the toggle train.
|
The following 4 members says Thank You to George Anderson for your post: |
01-19-2021, 04:34 PM | #31 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 617
Thanks: 3,053
Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts
|
I'm wondering if there would be an issue with hardening Vlim, would you heat the entire area and then quench or ????
__________________
Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.
|
The following member says Thank You to spangy for your post: |
01-19-2021, 05:14 PM | #32 |
Moderator
Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts
|
Micro or laser welding should not affect the hardness of the surrounding metal as far as I'm aware.
|
The following 3 members says Thank You to Vlim for your post: |
01-19-2021, 05:49 PM | #33 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chandler Arizona
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 1,318
Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts
|
just me, but....
I would have it TIG welded maybe partially submerge/bury it in something to reduce the heat and perform as a sink.. Then re-machine, and re-temper/draw back and then refinish......GT
|
The following 2 members says Thank You to G.T. for your post: |
01-19-2021, 06:41 PM | #34 |
Lifer - Twice Over
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Savannah
Posts: 519
Thanks: 0
Thanked 260 Times in 115 Posts
|
I have a few observations as an amateur that may not be relevant. First of all, I am not familiar with Blazer ammo but generally, in my experience, newly-manufactured ammo has a brass finish primer, like the bass case. These primers are white, like reloads. Is this new ammo or reloaded ammo?
Second, I agree that the primer strikes seem to be unusually deep (see especially the top round in the photo with the breech block from the rear). I also note from the photo with the breech block face that the striker hole is off center and seems to be “cratered,” raised around the hole. Is the breech block surface flat? Finally, in looking at the spent brass, most of the brass has the distinctive neck mark from the stepped chamber of the Luger, but several rounds do not seem to have this mark, suggesting that the round did not fully expand into the chamber. Perhaps a sign of firing out of battery? KFS |
The following member says Thank You to Karl for your post: |
01-19-2021, 09:03 PM | #35 | |
Twice a Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY
Posts: 3,323
Thanks: 7,193
Thanked 2,537 Times in 1,350 Posts
|
Quote:
Jim French repaired a Zamak frame for one of my Ermas. It might be worth getting a quote. jmfmicroweld@earthlink.net
__________________
"... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894 |
|
The following member says Thank You to ithacaartist for your post: |
01-19-2021, 09:22 PM | #36 |
User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Central Wyoming, USA
Posts: 49
Thanks: 78
Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts
|
Karl,
I used factory ammo purchased at a chain sporting goods store about one month ago. Poor photos the primer strikes are no deeper than what my Glock, Colt, Walther P-38 and so on spit out. The breech face and the firing pin opening are the same as my 1916 DWM and are not damaged. I guess I'm not sure how the pistol would fire "out of battery" but I am willing to listen. I took the pistol apart, cleaned it and inspected every part before I shot it and there was not any damage at that point. I am the only one that shot the pistol and didn't notice any issues when firing it. I only found the damage upon returning to my home when I went to clean the pistol. I am in agreement that it may have just been a breech that had weakened or something else. |
01-19-2021, 11:13 PM | #37 | |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Quote:
Having the right size cutter to recut the extractor slot, and then undercut the grooves for the "wings" is the tough part. I don't think there is any way it could be economical- unless for a really valuable pistol; but then, why would it have been shot. Just replace the breech block and move on. No need to look for reasons related to the ammo or other, the darn block was just worn out, old, crystalized, or had a manufacturing defect or steel problem from the beginning and "finally" gave up after 100 years of use. JMHO.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
|
The following 3 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post: |
01-19-2021, 11:25 PM | #38 | |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 617
Thanks: 3,053
Thanked 1,057 Times in 429 Posts
|
Quote:
__________________
Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.
|
|
The following 2 members says Thank You to spangy for your post: |
01-20-2021, 02:29 PM | #39 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts
|
When you do install a different BB, be sure to check the head spacing, as that may have caused your current problem. TH
|
The following 6 members says Thank You to Lugerdoc for your post: |
01-22-2021, 11:15 AM | #40 |
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,907
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts
|
In particular, the toggle train is, in fact, a long series of parts with axle pins holding the train together.
Wear at any of these axle pin points will contribute to headspace problems, and actually be additive. I once had a LP08 that kept breaking axle pins between the breech block and the middle toggle. I finally solved the problem by replacing that axle pin with an oversized pin (by .5mm). which lengthened the toggle train and stabilized it. Check and see how much play (front to back) is in the toggle train. That could have been the initial problem that let gas bypass the cartridge oblation ring and enter the breech area. Remember that the 9mm Luger cartridge body is slightly conical to aid in extraction. It doesn't take much toggle train looseness to contribute to a headspace problem and allow this to happen. Something was loose enough for the gas to bypass the cartridge body before it came completely out of lock. If it didn't come through a pierced primer hole, it had to travel some route around the cartridge case. As you replace the breech block, consider that the other two axle pins may be holding worn middle or rear toggles in the train as well.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war. |
The following member says Thank You to mrerick for your post: |
|
|