CMR Luger Rig from England.? - Page 2

Norme · 06-10-2011, 01:33 PM

Harry, the reason I ask is because the leather looks pretty nice in the photos. Regards, Norm

hansfischer007 · 06-10-2011, 01:40 PM

Hi Harry......My apologies for maybe a dumb question....when you refer to "iron"...are you talking about fitting the shoulder stock....which is optional from CMR .....to a Luger.?....as for the holsters Im betting they are made in India...........you said you had a Brown 6" Luger holster you might sell........could you possibly send me a photo at joemfischer@wildgeesefarms.com Im sure that will come thru on the address......but I would like to take a look at it.....I appreciate it......Regards...Hans Fischer

Kitkat041836 · 06-10-2011, 02:25 PM

Hi Hans
He is talking about the shoulder stock iron.The shoulder stock
iron on the CMR Navy or the CMR Artillery will not fit a Luger
Lug with out a lot of work done to the stock iron. I know as
I have done one on a CMR Navy stock iron. I have it for sale on
this fourm.
Thanks George:

Ron Wood · 06-10-2011, 03:10 PM

Even an original iron may require some fitting to a particular gun. I know...I have had to fit a couple. Most of the time it is a matter of making the "channel" deeper and a good set of riffler files makes the job a lot easier. I'm not much of a Dremel fan, I prefer hand work.
Most of this stock discussion is moot anyway, since Hans doesn't need a stock.

Vlim · 06-10-2011, 03:48 PM

I have 2 CMR stocks and both fit my P08 pistols without any problems. Tried it on a 1917 DWM LP08 and 1937, 1940 Mausers and they just slide one.

sheepherder · 06-10-2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

I have 2 CMR stocks and both fit my P08 pistols without any problems. Tried it on a 1917 DWM LP08 and 1937, 1940 Mausers and they just slide one.

Do you have the holsters too??? How are they???

Vlim · 06-10-2011, 03:55 PM

The holsters are nicely made, are dimensionally correct and are made of a good quality leather. I used the CMR LP08 holster and stock for some shooting tests, wanting to preserve the original stock and leather.

I also got their Finnish M23 holster, because I was curious about the usability of short P08 holster combined with a loose stock. Quality is good, and the Finnish stock especially was made from a very nice piece of wood.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-10-2011, 07:00 PM

I have had many CMR holsters in the shop over the years and have written my opinion on them many times. Many have come in to have the tops lengthened as the pistol would not fit into the holster and the only way to MAKE it fit is to make a longer top.
If CMR would provide accurate information to the makers in Pakistan it would help. The small details they ignore...if quality control were tightened up I think they could produce a pretty decent holster for what is a very cheap price. As it is they just make stupid errors.
The quality of the leather seems pretty good although their tanning methods leave most of the products I have seen in the past very stiff. Also they have used leather that was WAY too thick. They use cotton thread instead of linen.
There are many little details a guy can nitpick apon but in general their product seems to be worth about what they charge for it although shipping from England ain't cheap!
As Harry so correctly states CMR makes a poor stock iron. It needs about 5 hours of tedious hand work to even come close to fitting. Again..a small detail but not something CMR cares to disclose to their buyers.
They make a huge array of items that are desirable to collectors and I have not seen it all. What I have seen I have not been overly impressed with but these things do fill a niche in the collecting world.
Just approach their items with some caution and remember that even though there is a return policy I think..shipping back to England could surpass the value of the item!
I have always said if a reproduction item could approximate the original for quality and fit it would appeal to me but so far few items do...and CMR is not a Company I look to to fulfill my wish list.
One caveat after reading others experiences with CMR..it is likely their quality control is so poor that SOME of their items MAY be correct from time to time but for the most part I wouldn't depend on that being what you recieve.

Vlim · 06-10-2011, 07:55 PM

As said, I had no problems with the size of the holsters. Fit the LP08 like a glove, magazines fit nicely in the magazine pouch, etc...

No problems with the stock irons either. So either I was lucky and received good products, or the quality of the CMR products is somewhat undervalued.

sheepherder · 06-10-2011, 08:26 PM

I think we have to keep in mind that Pakistan does not have mechanically advanced industries...

mlmahon · 06-10-2011, 09:12 PM

But they DO have a nuclear weapon. I wonder if they used the above rig to make it.

-ML

lugerholsterrepair · 06-10-2011, 10:04 PM

Rich, I think you might be surprised at what an industrious craftsman can make with what seems like inferior equiptment.

Vlim · 06-11-2011, 06:35 AM

All joking aside, there is not a shred of evidence that the CMR holsters are being made in India, Pakistan or in fact any third world country.

Perhaps it is time to invite CMR to tell where they have their holsters made?

lugerholsterrepair · 06-11-2011, 11:50 AM

Gerben, The shred of evidence can be found in plain sight. The price asked for CMR holsters tells you they are made in a country that pays VERY little for labor and materials. If you surmise that Roscoe keystones his items..he would pay half what he is asking retail to purchase them. That price CANNOT be found in any modern industrialized nation on earth. So, that leaves very few countries to choose from that are capable of this kind of leather manufacture.
Pakistan is #1 on my list..then India, China.

I doubt very seriously if the Gentleman who owns CMR will voluntarily tell you where he has them made but you can try!

Vlim · 06-11-2011, 01:02 PM

I'm thinking more about Eastern-Europe, or China, really.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-11-2011, 01:30 PM

Gerben, China is certainly a possibility..These products from what I have seen don't look Chinese to me...

One other thing to consider is the reproduction Dutch holster now on eBay..The seller says he is having them reproduced in India.. They are pretty decent looking and a complicated holster to make with all the little metal parts.

sheepherder · 06-12-2011, 11:16 AM

There is a rather short thread on Still's Forum about a repro Dutch Luger holster...Seems to be a sequel to an earlier thread/discussion, with opposing views...

Anyway, there was a link to an eBay auction of the repro, which contained this comment in the description -

"Made in high quality steerhide, not from stray dogs like most of the cheap holsters available these days."

...Uh...SAY WHAT???...

http://cgi.ebay.com/230633019837?ru=...3D230633019837

Vlim · 06-12-2011, 11:40 AM

Well, you have to look at reproductions for what they are, and look at the value for money.

In a way it is good that they can easily be recognized as such. It won't be easy to pass them off as original, which is a bonus.

I mainly use reproductions to test the concept of the design, whilst avoiding possible damage to originals. So I am happy to receive a functional item which is dimensionally correct at a decent price. all that has been supplied to me by CMR in the past.

From what can be made out from the photos, the Dutch copy looks good to me.

Norme · 06-12-2011, 11:48 AM

Here is an example of a really bad reproduction, advertised as "genuine" on Ebay. Regards, Norm
http://cgi.ebay.com/Genuine-WWII-Ger...#ht_500wt_1102

lugerholsterrepair · 06-12-2011, 11:57 AM

Norm, What's funny about the GENUINE 1941 holster on eBay is... it's made in the ww1 style! A really sad piece of work.

06-10-2011, 01:40 PM	#22
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Question about "iron" Hi Harry......My apologies for maybe a dumb question....when you refer to "iron"...are you talking about fitting the shoulder stock....which is optional from CMR .....to a Luger.?....as for the holsters Im betting they are made in India...........you said you had a Brown 6" Luger holster you might sell........could you possibly send me a photo at joemfischer@wildgeesefarms.com Im sure that will come thru on the address......but I would like to take a look at it.....I appreciate it......Regards...Hans Fischer

06-10-2011, 02:25 PM	#23
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	Shoulder Stock Iron Hi Hans He is talking about the shoulder stock iron.The shoulder stock iron on the CMR Navy or the CMR Artillery will not fit a Luger Lug with out a lot of work done to the stock iron. I know as I have done one on a CMR Navy stock iron. I have it for sale on this fourm. Thanks George:

06-10-2011, 03:10 PM	#24
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Even an original iron may require some fitting to a particular gun. I know...I have had to fit a couple. Most of the time it is a matter of making the "channel" deeper and a good set of riffler files makes the job a lot easier. I'm not much of a Dremel fan, I prefer hand work. Most of this stock discussion is moot anyway, since Hans doesn't need a stock. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-10-2011, 07:00 PM	#28
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I have had many CMR holsters in the shop over the years and have written my opinion on them many times. Many have come in to have the tops lengthened as the pistol would not fit into the holster and the only way to MAKE it fit is to make a longer top. If CMR would provide accurate information to the makers in Pakistan it would help. The small details they ignore...if quality control were tightened up I think they could produce a pretty decent holster for what is a very cheap price. As it is they just make stupid errors. The quality of the leather seems pretty good although their tanning methods leave most of the products I have seen in the past very stiff. Also they have used leather that was WAY too thick. They use cotton thread instead of linen. There are many little details a guy can nitpick apon but in general their product seems to be worth about what they charge for it although shipping from England ain't cheap! As Harry so correctly states CMR makes a poor stock iron. It needs about 5 hours of tedious hand work to even come close to fitting. Again..a small detail but not something CMR cares to disclose to their buyers. They make a huge array of items that are desirable to collectors and I have not seen it all. What I have seen I have not been overly impressed with but these things do fill a niche in the collecting world. Just approach their items with some caution and remember that even though there is a return policy I think..shipping back to England could surpass the value of the item! I have always said if a reproduction item could approximate the original for quality and fit it would appeal to me but so far few items do...and CMR is not a Company I look to to fulfill my wish list. One caveat after reading others experiences with CMR..it is likely their quality control is so poor that SOME of their items MAY be correct from time to time but for the most part I wouldn't depend on that being what you recieve. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-10-2011, 08:26 PM	#30
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I think we have to keep in mind that Pakistan does not have mechanically advanced industries... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-10-2011, 01:33 PM	#21
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Harry, the reason I ask is because the leather looks pretty nice in the photos. Regards, Norm

06-10-2011, 03:48 PM	#25
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	I have 2 CMR stocks and both fit my P08 pistols without any problems. Tried it on a 1917 DWM LP08 and 1937, 1940 Mausers and they just slide one.

06-10-2011, 03:55 PM	#27
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The holsters are nicely made, are dimensionally correct and are made of a good quality leather. I used the CMR LP08 holster and stock for some shooting tests, wanting to preserve the original stock and leather. I also got their Finnish M23 holster, because I was curious about the usability of short P08 holster combined with a loose stock. Quality is good, and the Finnish stock especially was made from a very nice piece of wood.

06-10-2011, 07:55 PM	#29
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	As said, I had no problems with the size of the holsters. Fit the LP08 like a glove, magazines fit nicely in the magazine pouch, etc... No problems with the stock irons either. So either I was lucky and received good products, or the quality of the CMR products is somewhat undervalued.

06-10-2011, 09:12 PM	#31
mlmahon User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Port Neches, TX Posts: 80 Thanks: 51 Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts	But they DO have a nuclear weapon. I wonder if they used the above rig to make it. -ML __________________ Knowledge is Power. Trust but Verify.

06-10-2011, 10:04 PM	#32
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Rich, I think you might be surprised at what an industrious craftsman can make with what seems like inferior equiptment. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-11-2011, 06:35 AM	#33
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	All joking aside, there is not a shred of evidence that the CMR holsters are being made in India, Pakistan or in fact any third world country. Perhaps it is time to invite CMR to tell where they have their holsters made?

06-11-2011, 11:50 AM	#34
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gerben, The shred of evidence can be found in plain sight. The price asked for CMR holsters tells you they are made in a country that pays VERY little for labor and materials. If you surmise that Roscoe keystones his items..he would pay half what he is asking retail to purchase them. That price CANNOT be found in any modern industrialized nation on earth. So, that leaves very few countries to choose from that are capable of this kind of leather manufacture. Pakistan is #1 on my list..then India, China. I doubt very seriously if the Gentleman who owns CMR will voluntarily tell you where he has them made but you can try! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-11-2011, 01:02 PM	#35
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	I'm thinking more about Eastern-Europe, or China, really.

06-11-2011, 01:30 PM	#36
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gerben, China is certainly a possibility..These products from what I have seen don't look Chinese to me... One other thing to consider is the reproduction Dutch holster now on eBay..The seller says he is having them reproduced in India.. They are pretty decent looking and a complicated holster to make with all the little metal parts. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-12-2011, 11:16 AM	#37
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	There is a rather short thread on Still's Forum about a repro Dutch Luger holster...Seems to be a sequel to an earlier thread/discussion, with opposing views... Anyway, there was a link to an eBay auction of the repro, which contained this comment in the description - "Made in high quality steerhide, not from stray dogs like most of the cheap holsters available these days." ...Uh...SAY WHAT???... http://cgi.ebay.com/230633019837?ru=...3D230633019837 __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-12-2011, 11:40 AM	#38
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Well, you have to look at reproductions for what they are, and look at the value for money. In a way it is good that they can easily be recognized as such. It won't be easy to pass them off as original, which is a bonus. I mainly use reproductions to test the concept of the design, whilst avoiding possible damage to originals. So I am happy to receive a functional item which is dimensionally correct at a decent price. all that has been supplied to me by CMR in the past. From what can be made out from the photos, the Dutch copy looks good to me.

06-12-2011, 11:48 AM	#39
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Here is an example of a really bad reproduction, advertised as "genuine" on Ebay. Regards, Norm http://cgi.ebay.com/Genuine-WWII-Ger...#ht_500wt_1102

06-12-2011, 11:57 AM	#40
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,931 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Norm, What's funny about the GENUINE 1941 holster on eBay is... it's made in the ww1 style! A really sad piece of work. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."