Thor Rework Mark

[lugerholsterrepair]

Thor, Interesting thread...I agree with you about letting the client decide. Keeping records of pertinant details, serial #'s etc will clear up most problems.
I agree with Toggle Top, there is no real way to prevent fraud if one wants to go the distance.

Why not have a small lightening bolt stamp made to mark you work? Or if that is too Political, a small hammer? Keep up the good work my Friend, and I will see you soon! Thanks, Jerry Burney

[Dwight Gruber]

Thor,

I have often thought that a "signature" (as opposed to your cryptic dots) would be appropriate for your rework/restorations. If there is any justice, this should add a certain value, as has beenpointed out beofre.

And Pete,

I have examined several Gale Morgan restorations and have noticed that the side plates are consistently polished in a manner unlike the originals.

--Dwight

[Mike Jones]

I would say in all likelihood some of Teds work has already been passed as original, Not every buyer of a Luger is a collector. I sell several guns a year to customers who "Just want a Luger". So a lot of these kind of people would not know about Ted's service or the Luger Forum.

There was Pastor Herbert Muenkel of Zumbrota,Minn. who restored guns and he also kept records and would tell anyone who KNEW to ask him if he did a gun or not. His work is/was undectable. As the years have passed and the old Luger crowd has faded these restored guns have become mint factory original specimens.

Regards,
Mike

[Doubs]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
<strong>Thor, I have often thought that a "signature" (as opposed to your cryptic dots) would be appropriate for your rework/restorations. If there is any justice, this should add a certain value, as has beenpointed out beofre. --Dwight</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dwight has beaten me to it; I not only think a rework mark is necessary but I think it should be something unique. Your initials, for example.

While some collectors are honest and wouldn't attempt to pass your work off as factory original, others are not so honest and would rob the pennies from their dead mother's eyes. The initials should also be somewhere on the frame AND the cannon, IMO, and done in such a way to preclude anyone removing them without it being very noticeable if the Luger was stripped down for examination. Any "seller" who refuses to allow a strip-down could keep their "mint" pistol.

Just my opinion, of course.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gentlemen, One thing you have to keep in mind...As nice as Ted's work is he is still a businessman and has to sell his product. There will be a certain segment of potential customers who will and some who will not, want his Luger marked in any way. A smart businessman will do as Ted has chosen to do, give the customer a choice. I am sure Ted would rather not turn business away over this. I personally believe that any "mint" Luger should be considered suspect until proven otherwise. I applaud Thor's efforts in this area but there must be a compromise between forcing honesty on people and letting the chips fall where they may. There is no way to legislate morality. Jerry Burney

[policeluger]

"let the chips fall where they may".... I think this best describes Luger collecting today, at least this is the over all feeling I get from the LF group on this subject. We'll well close this out, and get on too the real important stuff....hunting, Octerber is closer then I am ready for it, and I already have that big bull elk stuffed and mounted somewhere in the house, wherever Mrs. PL will let me hang.

[Pete Ebbink]

Hello Dwight,

So that 1943 HK luger we all saw in Reno with any asking of $ 5-6K was a Morgan rework...?...it looked really good but I did notice the side plate finish was more mirror-bright than the rest of the gun. It looked a bit out-of-place in comparison to the rest of the pistol.

Do you know if this is Mr. Morgan's "signature" for any gun he refinishes...? Maybe his way of saying "Gale Morgan was here"...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Pete Ebbink]

Hello Mike,

Do you know if Pastor Herbert Muenkel's list was ever given out after his passing...?...Maybe posting it here on the Luger Forum and and Jan's site and even in AutoMag would help many folks down the line...

I would think this would be a great way to stop such reworked guns as being sold as "mint factory original specimens"...to the next luger buying generation...

Similarly, maybe Thor would do the same before he passes...(which won't be for a long while, hopefully !)

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Dwight Gruber]

Pete,

No, what I was referring to was the distinctive way the horizontal polishing at the top of the side plate meets the vertical polishing of the plate's face at a diagonal line. The Gale Morgan restorations I have seen continue the vertical polish to the top of the side plate.

I can't imagine that this would be a "signature", and of course I don't know about the larger number of his guns that I haven't examined, but when I am presented with a "Gale Morgan Restoration" its the first thing I look for.

--Dwight

[Thor]

Pete I am in very good health at 49 so it "may be a while" Natalie is 12 years younger than me and she shares my opinion to be open. I will certainly ask her to make the list (without links to clients or owners of the guns when I did them) available for distribution upon my eventual demise. 'course you never never know, I could be called home at any minute.

[John Sabato]

Thor,

you can wait to post your list if you wish... but there is another alternative...

you could post your list withOUT attributing names and ownership... just a cut and dried listing that stated gun type and serial number(s) with a photo if you have one available...

Since you are the owner of the data, and photographs... no one could object to you posting them since ownership has not been revealed... kind of like taking a photo of the Leaning Tower of Pisa and publishing it without getting Leonardo Da Vinci's approval

BTW, I have to toss my hat in with those that believe that your mark is not only necessary, but will also be considered your signature and cause for collectability of a particular weapon as time passes... your work is unsurpassed in my experience and I hope you continue to do it for a LONG time.

-John

[Strider]

Thor,
Here are my two cents worth. I have to agree with John S. on his post. Having seen a lot of you work first hand I think that you mark does need to be on your work. I would like to see it changed to a hammer instead of the 3 dots. Also, placing a list on your site or even here if John D. would allow it would be benifical to everyone. Like John suggested, no names need appear. Well any way that is my two cents.
Sid.

[Don H.]

Thor, I think you should give everyone the choice. If you insist on the mark you will lose work from the ones that don't want it. And if they want a luger restored without a mark they will find someone else to do it. I agree with Jerry Burney you have a business to run and a family to support. Besides all that I'm sure that a lot of your marks have already been removed by the people that don't want it. Restoration of Lugers will happen if you do them or not and this forum can't stop it so i wouldn't stress out about it. I know you're honest and you worry to much about this subject. Your decision is right in my book. Don H.

[John D.]

Ted,

I echo Don's comments - and told you so in private. If you want to publish the numbers either here - or on your website - that is your choice, I'd assist you with either, as you know. But, it should be by YOUR choice.

My parting comment is do NOT let someone back you into a corner on this topic. In reading the "adjacent" thread, my opinion is â??PoliceLugerâ?� has a lot of growing up to do - both professionally and handling his professional jealousy. I was tempted to ask, when he boosted Lugers (by his own definition, as he himself, does Strawing for 3rd parties, but he also posted that was â??boosting), what marks he applied to his strawed parts on his customerâ??s Lugers. My guess is none â?? as the strawed parts sent to him typically wonâ??t include a frame to be marked with a rework mark, such as you do. So he holds you to a different standard then he, PoliceLuger - holds himself. And that's both funny - and a sad commentary as to â??double standardsâ?�.

Ted, don't let others run your business for you - your work and professionalism speaks for themselves. And your decisions are yours alone.

- John D.

[policeluger]

"a business too run and a family too support" Don, at whose expense?, the original question, which will never be answered is, is major touch up repairs like the Mauser shown, noted by a proof/rework mark?. The answer is no and you all feel better for it? Fakes abound, mine and any other re-straw work is all too plain too spot, as are total re-blue. Well maybe that is not the case when you consider the thread over the HK at Reno."jealousy", really JD. somewhat like Ted, a 34+ year career as a civil engineer (traffic eng), and a 28+year gun business, I covet none. Again too all who may want it, free instruction on strawing and how too get started in bluing.

[John D.]

Hi PoliceLuger,

I don't think that was the issue I raised. I wasn't looking for your resume - rather, you made an accusation but fall short on your own reply. You didn't offer "instruction" for "$85", did you? At $85 for "instructions on how to straw" - you may want to re-think your pricing a bit. I sincerely thought you would re-straw that customers small parts for that price here:

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerfo...c;f=7;t=000153

Please - do tell me that wasn't your post?

Good lick to you, Howard - and to your apparent "budding career".

- John D.

[policeluger]

And a gook lick too you. No it was not, ask over 2 dozen of LF member....always offered free of charge, several have taken it upon them selves with great results.

[oldguy]

I vote for no rework mark. It's closer to the origional.

[Ron Wood]

Will EVERYONE please stop this petty bickering?! Geez, tempers and egos are getting out of hand.

Howard - You have contributed to the situation, whether you like it or not, by performing restoration or providing instructions to others. Unless you can honestly state that everything you have done is clearly marked, I see very little justification for requiring others to do so.

John D. - Your comment that "$85 for instructions how to straw" is not accurate and only serves to inflame the controversy. What Howard said was "send me the small parts and for $85 I'll polish/re-straw and send parts back". No wonder he contnues to get his hackles up.

It is not only this "restoration" topic that has exhibited increasing acrimony, but the "witness mark" discussion as well. I believe that it is incumbent on all of us to try to treat everyone with civility and respect for their opinions. It is about time to realize that theories, conjectures and flat out wild a** guesses are part of how the hobby lives and grows. Accept a different point of view for what it is, i.e. somebody's sincere attempt to present an explanation of a piece of history that has escaped documentation or has been lost to time. You can accept or reject a hypothesis without killing the messenger. Present your case with all the skill and logic you can muster. Respond to opposing views with dignity.