Something to clarify about Mauser Parabellum. - Page 2

mauro · 10-19-2005, 03:44 PM

Hi Steve,
yes I have bought the complete series of the 1969 Gun Fact magazines related to the Mauser Parabellum re-introduction.
They are really beautiful articles, with interesting information and pictures.
I suggest to all Mauser Parabellum funs to try to collect all the articles.
Try to follow the ebay bids and good luck.
Ciao
Mauro

Steve Richards · 10-20-2005, 02:21 AM

Mauro,

Did you just buy a set of 8 of these last Sunday? If so, we bid against each other. They really are nice articles and formed the base for the book by Francis Allan. Do you have the Dec 1979 American Rifleman? It has an article also by Francis Allan. If not, I can email a copy to you. It makes a large file and takes a while to send but has good information and two pages of pictures.

Steve

mauro · 10-21-2005, 12:37 PM

Hi Steve,
I have bught these articles about 2 months ago.
Yes, I have the Dec. 1979 AM.
You are right, this article are really the base to start studing the Mauser Parabellum production.
I will prepare a page in my web site with some photos extraced by these articles.
Have fun.
Ciao
Mauro

mauro · 11-16-2005, 05:11 PM

Hello fellows,
I have just received a table of Mauser Parabellum blue prints dated 21 March 1969.
The complete set of blueprints is available on my web site under Mauser Parabellum Gallery.

www.lugerlp08.com

Hereafter only a few examples. The pistol is in the early configuration like the #19 we discussed in the previous points.
Something more on the Mauser Parabellum field!
I guess really interesting.
Let me know if you note something important.
Ciao
Mauro

unspellable · 11-18-2005, 03:09 PM

Do the drawings include later variations?

Vlim · 11-18-2005, 03:25 PM

Mauro,

Very nice find!

mauro · 11-18-2005, 07:05 PM

Hi Noel,
The Blue prints are dated 21 march 1969 and they depict only the early configuration.
Ciao
Mauro

mauro · 12-04-2005, 10:22 AM

Hello friends,
Just noticed in the Rock Island Auction a 29/70 with serial number 10.004595 .
This is absolutely interesting because in my data base there is the number 10.004501 that belongs to a 06/73 model.
It means that for a while in the 1973 both models were produced and sold together.
So far I do not have evidence that in the 1974 both models were produced.
It should be very interesting to find a 29/70 dated more than 1973.

Please share your serial number of 30Luger Mauser Parabellum to increase the data base.

Ciao
Mauro

Steve Richards · 12-05-2005, 03:04 AM

Mauro,

My gun is outside of the range that you are requesting but here is what I have.

6" barrel .30cal #10.00.1336 with a target dated 18 December 1970

It has Interarms stamped on the right side and the Mauser FBM stamp on the left side. If the numbering started at 10.00.1001 then this would be only the 335th one produced.

I hope that this information helps even if it does not help with when changes were made.

Steve Richards

Lugerdoc · 12-05-2005, 10:48 AM

Steve & Mauro, My 7.65x150mm barrelled 06/70 (to use Mauser's designation) S/N 10.00.1067 also has an original test target dated 18 Dez.1970. I would guess that they test fired several hundred lugers that day, or just used targets with that date for quite a while. TH

mauro · 12-05-2005, 03:41 PM

Hi Steve & Tom,
I have already the serial number of your Mauser Parabellums in my data base but there is something news in the Steve reply.
In fact before you do not tell me that the test target was dated 18 December 1970 as the TomÃ¢??s Parabellum; really interesting.

Concerning the serial number, I confirm to you that, according to Mauser documentation, the numbering starts from 10.001001 (11.001001 for the Parabellum in 9mm).

For a while, the numbering follows this pattern: 10.00.axxx; then it changes in 1000.axxx (therefore one dot was missing!). Should be interesting to figure out when this change was implemented. According to my database this happens somewhere in 1971 in the range 10.00.16xx and 10.002185.

So far in my data base Ã¢??aÃ¢?Â ranges from 1 to 5. I never meet a Parabellum in .30luger with serial number grater than 10.005xxx. The last number in my data base is 10.005647.

Please continue helping me to populate the data base.

Thanks
Mauro

Aaron · 04-04-2006, 11:01 PM

Mauro, I just added another Interarms pistol to my collection. It does not have the year of manufacture. It's a PO8 pattern, 6 inch barrel, 9mm, serial number 11.04062

mauro · 04-05-2006, 02:37 PM

Aaron,
I guess you forgot a 0, the serial number should be 11.004062.
It seems to be an early production.
May you post some photos.
Thank you
Mauro

Aaron · 04-05-2006, 11:36 PM

Sorry Mauro, I made an error. The actual serial number is 11.014062

mauro · 04-06-2006, 03:55 PM

Hi Aaron,
Your pistol should be done around 1972-73.
Cheers,
Mauro

jl7422 · 05-20-2006, 12:59 PM

Mauro,

I was wondering if your research has led you to a determination of the serial number range for the "change-over" variation 29/70 noted on page 10 of Mr. Allan's book. According to Allan, this lot of 65 pistols was "completed using whatever Swiss Model parts were still available and substituting P.08 model parts where necessary and possible. All 65 guns received five-inch .30 barrels and were imported by Interarms."

I recently examined a Parabellum that may be from this lot:
SN 10. 459X, Swiss frame, .30 cal. 5" barrel, P. 08 safety lever, American Eagle chamber, "Original Mauser" toggle, dated 73 with eagle/nitro and ulm proofs.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/9766763441.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanks,
John

mauro · 05-20-2006, 04:00 PM

Hi John,
Thank you for your information. The transitional models, I have examined so far, are in the range 418x Ã¢?? 459x dated Ã¢??72 and Ã¢??73. In this range it is possible to find all configurations mixed. In addition for a while both pistols have been produced in parallel therefore there is not a clear Ã¢??border lineÃ¢?Â between the models.
The pistol you shown could be one of the pistols Allan mentions in his book; really interesting.
Cheers,
Mauro

marshombre · 06-23-2006, 06:07 PM

Mauro, I recently acquired an outstanding 6in., 9mm, P-08 frame Parabellum, serial # 11.014210 with box and spare magazine. The paperwork and test target were missing, but the pistol looks unfired. Any idea on date of manufacture? MR

mauro · 06-24-2006, 03:54 AM

Hi Mark,
Congratulations for your nice find. Now according to my data base, your pistol should be made in 1973 early 1974. Unfortunatly so far my database for the 9mm is not so accurate as for the .30 luger. I am working on it but it is not so easy to find out dated 9mm because they were mainly sold in USA.
You can visit my web site as well for some more information about the Mauser Parabellum production.
Cheers,
Mauro

SDDAVE · 03-26-2007, 05:43 PM

Hey can I jump in on this?

My serial number is 11.00.1821, ans was purchased on April 28 1972.

4 inch 9mm.

10-19-2005, 03:44 PM	#21
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Steve, yes I have bought the complete series of the 1969 Gun Fact magazines related to the Mauser Parabellum re-introduction. They are really beautiful articles, with interesting information and pictures. I suggest to all Mauser Parabellum funs to try to collect all the articles. Try to follow the ebay bids and good luck. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

10-21-2005, 12:37 PM	#23
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Steve, I have bught these articles about 2 months ago. Yes, I have the Dec. 1979 AM. You are right, this article are really the base to start studing the Mauser Parabellum production. I will prepare a page in my web site with some photos extraced by these articles. Have fun. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

11-16-2005, 05:11 PM	#24
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello fellows, I have just received a table of Mauser Parabellum blue prints dated 21 March 1969. The complete set of blueprints is available on my web site under Mauser Parabellum Gallery. www.lugerlp08.com Hereafter only a few examples. The pistol is in the early configuration like the #19 we discussed in the previous points. Something more on the Mauser Parabellum field! I guess really interesting. Let me know if you note something important. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

11-18-2005, 03:09 PM	#25
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	re-intro drawings Do the drawings include later variations?

11-18-2005, 07:05 PM	#27
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Noel, The Blue prints are dated 21 march 1969 and they depict only the early configuration. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

10-20-2005, 02:21 AM	#22
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauro, Did you just buy a set of 8 of these last Sunday? If so, we bid against each other. They really are nice articles and formed the base for the book by Francis Allan. Do you have the Dec 1979 American Rifleman? It has an article also by Francis Allan. If not, I can email a copy to you. It makes a large file and takes a while to send but has good information and two pages of pictures. Steve

11-18-2005, 03:25 PM	#26
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Mauro, Very nice find!

12-04-2005, 10:22 AM	#28
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello friends, Just noticed in the Rock Island Auction a 29/70 with serial number 10.004595 . This is absolutely interesting because in my data base there is the number 10.004501 that belongs to a 06/73 model. It means that for a while in the 1973 both models were produced and sold together. So far I do not have evidence that in the 1974 both models were produced. It should be very interesting to find a 29/70 dated more than 1973. Please share your serial number of 30Luger Mauser Parabellum to increase the data base. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

12-05-2005, 03:04 AM	#29
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauro, My gun is outside of the range that you are requesting but here is what I have. 6" barrel .30cal #10.00.1336 with a target dated 18 December 1970 It has Interarms stamped on the right side and the Mauser FBM stamp on the left side. If the numbering started at 10.00.1001 then this would be only the 335th one produced. I hope that this information helps even if it does not help with when changes were made. Steve Richards

12-05-2005, 10:48 AM	#30
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Steve & Mauro, My 7.65x150mm barrelled 06/70 (to use Mauser's designation) S/N 10.00.1067 also has an original test target dated 18 Dez.1970. I would guess that they test fired several hundred lugers that day, or just used targets with that date for quite a while. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-05-2005, 03:41 PM	#31
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Steve & Tom, I have already the serial number of your Mauser Parabellums in my data base but there is something news in the Steve reply. In fact before you do not tell me that the test target was dated 18 December 1970 as the TomÃ¢??s Parabellum; really interesting. Concerning the serial number, I confirm to you that, according to Mauser documentation, the numbering starts from 10.001001 (11.001001 for the Parabellum in 9mm). For a while, the numbering follows this pattern: 10.00.axxx; then it changes in 1000.axxx (therefore one dot was missing!). Should be interesting to figure out when this change was implemented. According to my database this happens somewhere in 1971 in the range 10.00.16xx and 10.002185. So far in my data base Ã¢??aÃ¢?Â ranges from 1 to 5. I never meet a Parabellum in .30luger with serial number grater than 10.005xxx. The last number in my data base is 10.005647. Please continue helping me to populate the data base. Thanks Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

04-04-2006, 11:01 PM	#32
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Mauro, I just added another Interarms pistol to my collection. It does not have the year of manufacture. It's a PO8 pattern, 6 inch barrel, 9mm, serial number 11.04062

04-05-2006, 02:37 PM	#33
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Aaron, I guess you forgot a 0, the serial number should be 11.004062. It seems to be an early production. May you post some photos. Thank you Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

04-05-2006, 11:36 PM	#34
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Sorry Mauro, I made an error. The actual serial number is 11.014062

04-06-2006, 03:55 PM	#35
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Aaron, Your pistol should be done around 1972-73. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

05-20-2006, 12:59 PM	#36
jl7422 User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Mauro, I was wondering if your research has led you to a determination of the serial number range for the "change-over" variation 29/70 noted on page 10 of Mr. Allan's book. According to Allan, this lot of 65 pistols was "completed using whatever Swiss Model parts were still available and substituting P.08 model parts where necessary and possible. All 65 guns received five-inch .30 barrels and were imported by Interarms." I recently examined a Parabellum that may be from this lot: SN 10. 459X, Swiss frame, .30 cal. 5" barrel, P. 08 safety lever, American Eagle chamber, "Original Mauser" toggle, dated 73 with eagle/nitro and ulm proofs. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/9766763441.jpg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thanks, John

05-20-2006, 04:00 PM	#37
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi John, Thank you for your information. The transitional models, I have examined so far, are in the range 418x Ã¢?? 459x dated Ã¢??72 and Ã¢??73. In this range it is possible to find all configurations mixed. In addition for a while both pistols have been produced in parallel therefore there is not a clear Ã¢??border lineÃ¢?Â between the models. The pistol you shown could be one of the pistols Allan mentions in his book; really interesting. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-23-2006, 06:07 PM	#38
marshombre User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: W Central FL Posts: 98 Thanks: 12 Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts	Mauro, I recently acquired an outstanding 6in., 9mm, P-08 frame Parabellum, serial # 11.014210 with box and spare magazine. The paperwork and test target were missing, but the pistol looks unfired. Any idea on date of manufacture? MR __________________ Tempus edax rerum

06-24-2006, 03:54 AM	#39
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Mark, Congratulations for your nice find. Now according to my data base, your pistol should be made in 1973 early 1974. Unfortunatly so far my database for the 9mm is not so accurate as for the .30 luger. I am working on it but it is not so easy to find out dated 9mm because they were mainly sold in USA. You can visit my web site as well for some more information about the Mauser Parabellum production. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

03-26-2007, 05:43 PM	#40
SDDAVE User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey can I jump in on this? My serial number is 11.00.1821, ans was purchased on April 28 1972. 4 inch 9mm.