Help Please With Info on This Luger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Peter Anhalt

I don't know if I should have started this thread, all I was asking for was some helpful advice on a Luger model.

This discussion's gone off at a tangent to comment on the virtues of Brit deactivated weapons.

You are quite correct.

I will make a note to refrain from responding to your requests.

[John Sabato]

The discussion of the mutilation of firearms, and Lugers in particular by the government of the UK is not forbidden in this forum, but that is not what this thread is about. The new member requested information on the only type Luger he is entitled by law to possess, so if you have information on his request, please post it in this thread, and if you wish to discuss UK deactivation of firearms, please start a new thread in the General Discussion forum.

Thanks! and a hearty welcome to the Lugerforum for Peter...

[Peter Anhalt]

Thanks for the welcome.

Seems I've gotten off on the wrong foot with my posting and looks like I've offended postino, I'm very sorry about that, that was not my intent and the last thing I would want to do.

I'm more than happy to discuss deactivated firearms in the UK and how our laws operate. It just seemed to me that when the thread turned to that subject quite a few members found it saddening and I thought to myself, perhaps I shouldn't have started this.

In the UK, all that the ordinary Joe can hold is a deactivated firearm, or a firearm manufactured for an obsolete calibre. So thats pretty restricting.

Anyone interested in collecting WWII firearms has to make do with deactivated weapons.

if anyone has any questions on deactivated weapons or what can be legally held in the UK I'm only too happy to respond. As John Sabato kindly suggested, maybe worth starting a new thread if anyone is interested.

Getting back to my DWM Luger. Am I right in thinking this is a commercial model and as its undated it makes it pre-1910? Can anyone tell me the date of manufacture by the serial number, also, what is the significance of the 24 stamped below DWM's logo? Haven't been able to figure that out.

It doesn't have any proof marks or Brit marks.

My thanks in advance,

Peter

[Edward Tinker]

No, sorry, you are a bit off track?

Commericial lugers were made through the 1920's and part of the 1930's for export sale. Yours has a stock lug so it was made after 1913.

Being a parts gun makes it difficult to figure out. I can't figure out the markings on the left, even after blowing them up. A commercial marked luger would normally have a crown N on it, left side usually.

Also, the 24 by the DWM is the last two of a serial number, so if yours doesn't end in 24, then its a mismatched part.

Ed

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Peter Anhalt

...and looks like I've offended postino...

Postino is pretty hard to offend...You haven't...I'll stick to answering your questions, in the future (if I can)...

I just didn't have anything to add about identifying your Luger...

But I found the pics of the de-activation very interesting...Thanks for posting them!

[John Sabato]

Postino,

Search the "Member Gallery" for the word "Deactivation" and you will find an album that contains photos of Tacfoley's deactivated Luger... They go into more detail on the UK deactivation process...

Never mind, here is the link: http://forum.lugerforum.com/gallery2...g2_itemId=6021

[Karl]

This is a mismatched gun with some problems: it appears to have been heavily buffed and reblued, I speculate that the chamber date and receiver SN have been "scrubbed," and the barrel appears to be a replacement. However, the basic gun seems to be a military DWM Luger produced in early 1914 to early 1916.
EVIDENCE:
Traces of military proofs on right side of receiver.
Lack of “extra” proofs and “L-P08” receiver cut rules out Erfurt production
Frame serial number 5905 without suffix and most visible parts #05 – early production for whatever year.
Stock lug on frame (introduced later 1913) rules out pre-1914 production
Unrelieved sear bar (relieved introduced later 1916) rules out post early 1916 production
This gun is a mess but it is a piece of history and if I am correct, it was carried by a soldier in the Great War.
KFS

[Les]

I can't make out the left side marks and that is very interesting. You said you won 3 lugers was that mean more to come?

[Peter Anhalt]

Thanks Karl for that info, that is really interesting.

I know this old piece has seen some hard times but it just speaks history to me and finding out that history is interesting.

On the left hand side the only readable marking is a Brit proof house stamp (Birmingham proof stamp - crossed swords).

On the left hand side there is an indentation, but not anything thats near a serial number, just looks like a ding that was too deep to rub out.

On the right hand side, there is, what's left of a S, almost like a dollar sign, towards the barrel, there's, what looks like a bell on its side.

I've taken some pics of the left and right side and although my camera skills aren't that good maybe you can pick out what they are.

On a closer look, the barrel does look like a replacement, the blue is a lot newer, but again, the stampings have been rubbed out before it was blued.

Are there any comments on the wooden bottom magazine, is this the correct period for this Luger?

I have got two more Lugers I bought at an auction, one, a 1936 S/42 and a 1939 42. I'm trying to get my head around the DWM before I ask any questions about the others.

I'm very grateful for the info thats been provided, I haven't got any info on Lugers that I can provide to repay the kindness thats been shown in terms of parting with time and knowledge to help me determine what I've bought so I'm reluctant to post loads of questions about the other two.

I don't want it to seem I'm taking advantage of forum members knowledge without being able to repay in kind.

Thanks to all,

Peter

[Karl]

Peter,

The magazine appears correct to me (but I am not an expert) and it appears to be in beautiful condition. The "S like a dollar sign" in your initial post looks to me like the remains of a Gothic S. If so, that is significant. It would be part of one of three receiver acceptance stamps (originally with a crown above). If I am correct, and I may not be, along with the "evidence" I cited above, this would make your Luger a 1915 or 1916 DWM. As I stated, the evidence would make this an early 1914 to early 1916 Luger. According to Still's Central Power Pistols (pages 439-440), pre-A block (no SN suffix) 1914 below SN 9360 had XQF letter stamps (no S); but pre-A block 1915 had SES stamps and pre-A block 1916 had HSS stamps. Based on the location of the mark directly under the receiver opening, it is probably the first letter of three - making this 1915 DWM 5905. Again I am not an expert and would welcome a real expert to tell me that I am on track or full of s***. KFS

[chromeed]

If you need a sideplate I saw these repo ones on the site below for $25.00
http://www.thedealershowroom.com/cat...40/6870356.htm

[chromeed]

I posted this on the wrong thread
If you need a side plate I saw these repos for $25.00 at the site below.
http://www.thedealershowroom.com/cat...40/6870356.htm

[Vlim]

The takedown lever is either a Swiss 06/29 one, or a post war Mauser one.
Forum menber Tom Heller has had excellent reproduction sideplates available. Dropped one on my 1917 LP08 which had a trigger pull from hell and it cured it immediately. Blue matches the gun blue perfectl.

[Peter Anhalt]

My thanks to all for the wealth of info.

I have ordered a replacement side plate, just waiting for that to arrive, but thanks for the info on Tom Heller.

Interesting info on the take down lever, I thought it was probably a repro and was going to try and source a period replacement, thanks for that.

On the magazine, I was hoping someone would comment, I thought it was probably about the right time frame, so my thanks for that and thanks for the info on the dollar sign stamping, that is really interesting.

Once again, my thanks for all the info.

Peter

[Douglas Jr.]

Trying to help to put this topic back on its tracks.

It is a mismatching Luger, as said above. Numbering is in military style, there are remains of military acceptance proofs on the right side of the receiver and there is the notch for the Artillery rear sight over the receiver.

My bet is that this guns started its life as an Artillery Luger (LP.08) during WWI and was rebarreled with the more conventional 4 inches (100mm) barrel afer the war. Probably it was at this time that the toggle was changed in order to have the correct rear sights (fixed) for its new barrel. It was most likely aimed for civilian market after WWI.

Anyway, it would display nicely in a shadow box of your father's belonging and awards.

Thanks for sharing,

Douglas

PS - Just now I saw that Karl had provided you with much more info. Sorry for being redundant. I promisse to read the 2nd page next time!

[Peter Anhalt]

Hey, not redundant at all, thanks for more info.

The observation about an artillery history is very interesting, thanks for that, what you say makes a lot of sense.

As a newbie to Lugers I have been absolutely bowled over with the amount of knowledge that forum members have and the willingness to share and help new guys like me.

I've definately got the Luger bug and I hope, in time, as I gather more knowledge, I can pass on some informed info.

I must say, this thread has been an interesting learning curve for me.

My thanks,

Peter