Tapped holes in backstrap

oneshy · 06-23-2005, 10:51 AM

Am looking at an Am. Eagle on Gunbroker that has 3 holes tapped into backstrap. Seller has a picture of the 1 that's visible and says 2 are hidden under the safety. What could have been the reason? How does this affect the value?

I'll try a link, but I never can get them to work. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=33706697

ADMIN; link changed, best way to get the link exact, is to open it into a seperate windown, then do a copy of the link and paste it here. Ed

Pete Ebbink · 06-23-2005, 11:11 AM

Hi John,

I entered your G-B number...but I do not see any holes in the backstrap of the AE that comes up...did the seller send you other photos ?

If yes, please post them or send them to me (pebbink@pacbellnet) and I can get them posted for you...

Another PIA offering :

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=32554170

oneshy · 06-23-2005, 11:42 AM

Sorry Pete, Got the 2 confused. No. is 33706697. Just got called to work, may be a couple of days before I can get back. Thanks, John.
There is a picture of 1 of the holes. I haven't had a chance to ask for more pictures.

Pete Ebbink · 06-23-2005, 11:58 AM

Link to John's pistol of interest :

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=33706697

Just a WAG...but maybe some type of past attachment of a shoulder stock to this AE that has no stock lug...

I think Ted Green (aka Thor) does much nicer refinish work than Eugene...

thegundude · 06-24-2005, 01:12 AM

So how do those holes affect value? It seems that it's just a pretty shooter, right? Between the refinish and the filled holes.

Also, wouldn't this pistol have undergone the 1920 commercial refurb program? Which guns from this period escaped that fate?

Lugerdoc · 06-24-2005, 09:02 AM

Gundude, I'm not familiar with the 1920s "refinishing" program for commerical pistols, and I doubt that anyone else is. Particularly when it comes to pre1908 AEs that had been in the US for years. I agree with Pete that the threaded hole in the back strap was made post factory and for a screw attached stock. If this was the only problem, it would not reduce the pistols value more than 10%, than if same condition, without the hole. TH

thegundude · 06-24-2005, 09:42 PM

Thanks Tom.

So far (it's at $855) it seems like a fairly good deal on an old model frame and old dished toggle, grip safety Swiss types. The seem to be rarer and rarer in any condition. It would help to round out my collection by a few leaps and bounds, and rather quickly.

I'll have to keep my eyes pealed on it.

RAHamilton · 06-30-2005, 07:48 AM

John:

I read your message regarding the drilled hole in the backstrap of the AE you were looking at on GunBroker. I purchased a 1900 (out-of-range) AE that displays the basic characteristics of these possible TEST Eagles and is a very nice specimen. You can search under my name in the Early Luger Section and will find several pictures and comments from very knowledgable and experienced collectors regarding this AE.

One very interesting feature about it was a small hole drilled and tapped in the grip strap. There is a very clear picture of it under that post. It seemed to be the consensus that it was probably for a Behnke-Thiemann shoulder stock. The one unknown from various collectors about similar holes in very early Lugers is whether they were experimental factory productions or some gun smith(s) who were attaching shoulder stocks for themselves or customers. There is no question that the hole in mine appears to be very old and really doesn't do anything to distract from the pistol itself. In fact, in my judgment it adds to it's history and mystic.

Best Regards,
Bob

Ron Wood · 06-30-2005, 12:40 PM

The tapped holes are not for a Benke-Thiemann stock. The B-T stock is attached to the Luger by the grip plates on the stock and just uses the existing grip screws to secure it. I have seen a couple of early Lugers with a tapped hole(s) in the back strap and have heard of some others. I think they were gun smith modifications for custom built stocks. I have never seen such a stock and I keep hoping one will turn up so I will know what they looked like. If I were to guess, I would think they would be a skeleton frame stock attached by a thumb screw like the old Stevens bicycle rifles.

oneshy · 06-30-2005, 10:01 PM

Thanks everyone. I kinda figured it might be an after-market mod.. I believe it went for $1275. Serial no. I believe was 13300. Hope I didn't miss a collector, but I couldn't wrench my wallet out of my pocket. I believe it was re-blued.

Pete Ebbink · 06-30-2005, 10:12 PM

Seller did indicate a reblue. Seller probably did the work as he sells his services on e-Bay...

" This Luger has a rust blue refinish. The same finish it had originally.

Gun has 100% finish. Shows no rust. Was not polished. No corners or numbers taken off. "

Lugerdoc · 07-01-2005, 10:14 AM

Ron, Years ago I did own, for a short time one of these "screw in" type stocks. As I recall, the one that I had was labled that it was made somewhere in Oregon about 1910, so probably a contemporay and competitor of Ideal. TH

06-23-2005, 10:51 AM	#1
oneshy User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houma,La Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tapped holes in backstrap Am looking at an Am. Eagle on Gunbroker that has 3 holes tapped into backstrap. Seller has a picture of the 1 that's visible and says 2 are hidden under the safety. What could have been the reason? How does this affect the value? I'll try a link, but I never can get them to work. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=33706697 ADMIN; link changed, best way to get the link exact, is to open it into a seperate windown, then do a copy of the link and paste it here. Ed

06-24-2005, 01:12 AM	#5
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	So how do those holes affect value? It seems that it's just a pretty shooter, right? Between the refinish and the filled holes. Also, wouldn't this pistol have undergone the 1920 commercial refurb program? Which guns from this period escaped that fate? __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-24-2005, 09:02 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Gundude, I'm not familiar with the 1920s "refinishing" program for commerical pistols, and I doubt that anyone else is. Particularly when it comes to pre1908 AEs that had been in the US for years. I agree with Pete that the threaded hole in the back strap was made post factory and for a screw attached stock. If this was the only problem, it would not reduce the pistols value more than 10%, than if same condition, without the hole. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-24-2005, 09:42 PM	#7
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Tom. So far (it's at $855) it seems like a fairly good deal on an old model frame and old dished toggle, grip safety Swiss types. The seem to be rarer and rarer in any condition. It would help to round out my collection by a few leaps and bounds, and rather quickly. I'll have to keep my eyes pealed on it. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

06-30-2005, 12:40 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The tapped holes are not for a Benke-Thiemann stock. The B-T stock is attached to the Luger by the grip plates on the stock and just uses the existing grip screws to secure it. I have seen a couple of early Lugers with a tapped hole(s) in the back strap and have heard of some others. I think they were gun smith modifications for custom built stocks. I have never seen such a stock and I keep hoping one will turn up so I will know what they looked like. If I were to guess, I would think they would be a skeleton frame stock attached by a thumb screw like the old Stevens bicycle rifles. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-23-2005, 11:11 AM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi John, I entered your G-B number...but I do not see any holes in the backstrap of the AE that comes up...did the seller send you other photos ? If yes, please post them or send them to me (pebbink@pacbellnet) and I can get them posted for you... Another PIA offering : http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=32554170

06-23-2005, 11:42 AM	#3
oneshy User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houma,La Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry Pete, Got the 2 confused. No. is 33706697. Just got called to work, may be a couple of days before I can get back. Thanks, John. There is a picture of 1 of the holes. I haven't had a chance to ask for more pictures.

06-23-2005, 11:58 AM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Link to John's pistol of interest : http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=33706697 Just a WAG...but maybe some type of past attachment of a shoulder stock to this AE that has no stock lug... I think Ted Green (aka Thor) does much nicer refinish work than Eugene...

06-30-2005, 07:48 AM	#8
RAHamilton User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sioux City, Iowa Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: I read your message regarding the drilled hole in the backstrap of the AE you were looking at on GunBroker. I purchased a 1900 (out-of-range) AE that displays the basic characteristics of these possible TEST Eagles and is a very nice specimen. You can search under my name in the Early Luger Section and will find several pictures and comments from very knowledgable and experienced collectors regarding this AE. One very interesting feature about it was a small hole drilled and tapped in the grip strap. There is a very clear picture of it under that post. It seemed to be the consensus that it was probably for a Behnke-Thiemann shoulder stock. The one unknown from various collectors about similar holes in very early Lugers is whether they were experimental factory productions or some gun smith(s) who were attaching shoulder stocks for themselves or customers. There is no question that the hole in mine appears to be very old and really doesn't do anything to distract from the pistol itself. In fact, in my judgment it adds to it's history and mystic. Best Regards, Bob

06-30-2005, 10:01 PM	#10
oneshy User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houma,La Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks everyone. I kinda figured it might be an after-market mod.. I believe it went for $1275. Serial no. I believe was 13300. Hope I didn't miss a collector, but I couldn't wrench my wallet out of my pocket. I believe it was re-blued.

06-30-2005, 10:12 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Seller did indicate a reblue. Seller probably did the work as he sells his services on e-Bay... " This Luger has a rust blue refinish. The same finish it had originally. Gun has 100% finish. Shows no rust. Was not polished. No corners or numbers taken off. "

07-01-2005, 10:14 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron, Years ago I did own, for a short time one of these "screw in" type stocks. As I recall, the one that I had was labled that it was made somewhere in Oregon about 1910, so probably a contemporay and competitor of Ideal. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net