German Trench Knife

[Edward Tinker]

My Dad came across this the other day. I thought it was possibly a cut-down bayonet, but he found this description on the web:

WWII GERMAN TRENCH KNIFE
Just like the real knife the German foot soliders would use. This is a nice functional replica knife. A must have for WWII collectors! Overall: 11.3", Blade 6.2"

His appears real and from WW2?

Comments?

If real, value?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ed, I have been collecting German daggers now for about a year. Yes it appears to be a real German Soldier's trench knife. The are relatively common . Last I saw they were in the 100.00 plus range. Look up trench dagger on eBay to see what current values are. If I get to it before you do I will post again. Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Thanks Jerry, I passed your info along to dad, you're not looking for one are you?

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ed, Just searched eBay and I found two that are not as nice as yours. $175 to $250 is what they brought. I would suspect your Dad's , being in nice shape and unit marked would bring considerably more. There are many fakes on the market. Yours appears to be authentic.
I would pick one up if I could get a bargain but they are not my main interest, Nazi Dress Daggers are what I collect. Youe Dad has a nice one! Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Nice, I passed the info along to dad, he'll be pleased and it'll go on e-bay I assume,

Ed

[George Anderson]

Ed, I have quite a few "trench knives" I have watched them and collected them for several years and have never seen one that was unit marked.

My thoughts are that yours is a WWI piece and seems to have been fashioned from an earlier weapon. I might also be inclined to think that the unit mark applied to the earlier incarnation of this blade.

The reason I think that is that I do not know that trench knives were ever issued by the army to troops. I think that they may have all been private purchase or "gifted" by unit commanders, etc.

Please remember that I am at least 50% F-O-S, but my regards to you and your family anyway.

[lugerholsterrepair]

George, taking the handle for what it is, what could it have been made from? It is pretty much how many trench knives look....Couldn't be a bayonet. I really know nothing much about them but have held a half dozen originals in my hands over the years. Interesting..Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Nice looking pointy thing your Dad found. I believe that the same pattern trench knife was used in dubyadubya one-eye as well as WWII. It would make more sense for a WWI piece to be unit marked although I never saw one unit marked before either (then again, I haven't been looking at them all that carefully). I have been thinking about picking one up, but like Jerry I haven't lucked into a bargain and the fun money, when there is any, always goes into Luger stuff. So many toys...sigh

[George Anderson]

As wacky as this may sound, 9 grooves fits a 98/05 bayonet and probably a 98 as well. The proportions indicate that the thing was cut down considerably and the wood grip panels were sanded down a whole bunch. My money against yours says it was a bayonet.

[lugerholsterrepair]

George, I never bet with my Wife or anyone smarter than me....That includes just about everyone. Especially you.

I noticed at the hilt there is metal cut down, in other words the knife blade is shallower than the part that goes into the handle. I would bet you are right. I wonder if there is some evidence on the handle(slot) of it being a bayonet? ED?

Ron, Fun money is really short ever since I started going after Nazi dress daggers...Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

I have no clue, Dad is as far as you and Ellie are from my house

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

What's his # and I'll call him and ask...Jerry Burney

[Ron Smith]

OK, Here's the official word on this subject.
I agree with George.
See the grind marks on the blade, just below the guard.

Ron

[JuergenG]

Here are some trench knifes for sale
http://www.egunner.de/market/list_it...qry&plusdescr=
The last one is not a "Grabendolch" but rather a
cut-down bayonet.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Some thoughts about the made from a bayonet theory.

The rifle slot on a German bayonet is quite deep. I question whether the knife handle could be fashioned without leaving traces of it.

Same for the blood groove on a bayonet. Seems there would be some of this somewhere as the blood groove is very deep.

I would guess that one would have to have a trench knife and a bayonet side by side and take some measurements to be absolutely sure it could be done.

I called and had a very nice conversation with Jerry Tinker. Ed's Father. He seemed to think the knife had no traces of bayonet charecteristics. That it was pretty much a proffesional or factory job from what he could see of it.

Take a close look at Juergen's link. I think cutting one of these out of a bayonet would be hard to do and making one might be easier...Interesting subject! Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Funny thing Jerry, got an e-mail from my Dad and he had nothing but nice things to say about you!

Seriously, I apprecaite the forum helping, wealth of knowledge, thanks guys!

Ed

[George Anderson]

Now, in the light of day, I think I agree with Jerry. The severe grinding at the cutting edge where it joins the guard fooled me into overlooking some of the more obvious factors; guard thickness and thickness of the blade. I guess it is a heavily overground and used trench knife.

The unit mark intrigues me. Does Jeff Noll list any unit marked trench knives?

[trigger643]

I've had only a few of these over the years, but it looks pretty straight forward to me. A well used WWI vintage trench/boot knife. The volume of metal you'd have to remove from a bayo to get it down to this size is daunting.... This item looks good to me. The grinding marks? Consider for a moment how items such as these were often sharpened during the war... Grinding wheels were commonly employed by both sides. The overall thickness of the blade just doesn't support the theory of it began life as anything else. I've had them with and without maker marks, but never with unit marks. Still, I don't see a problem with it as the patina, overall shape of the blade and the scabbard, the grips all look good. (remember, bayo grips are held with 2 screws, not 3 pins).

Ed, let me know when it hits ebay and I'll be pleased to add it to my collection.

[Edward Tinker]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6503514828

Dad put her up, I'll move this to the trader area in the morning

Ed