OGCA Show

[Big Norm]

I will be at the Ohio Gun Collectors Assn show on Saturday May 17th. If the weathers good, I'll be wearing my green Michigan State Univ t-shirt. I just hope that no OSU Buckeye shoots me.
If you see me say Hi.
Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

[Big Norm]

I went to the Ohio Gun Collecoters Assn meeting yesterday. Beautilful day for a gun show but attendance was low, probably because there was road work on a road leading from I-75 to the Ohio turnpike. A lot of Michigan guys may have decided to stay home.

I got interested in two Lugers. Both were being sold by a guy who had maybe ten guns on his table. These were the only Lugers that he had. His father died and neither he or his brother wanted the fathers collection. So there he sat with a brand new blue book on his lap waiting for an appraiser to help him decide a price on his guns. He could not give a price until he talked to the appraiser. I was salivating. This is the situation that I search for.

The first gun was a 1915 DWM P-08, all matching with a matching mag. Decent holster with a tool. This is the gun that I wanted but some guy beat me to it for $750 by a few minutes. I was upset because I was trying to watch the table but got distracted because my good friend Ken Karsted came by and we took a pop break together.

The second gun was an early 1937, 95% plus original blue with 98% original straw, two non matching alum mags. The bore has some light pitting in the first inch but was otherwise excellent, the grips are numbered to the gun and near mint. A 1936 Sebruder Klinge Dresden holster that someone had cut a little around the opening to help get the gun out. But otherwise in good shape. Also a tool in the holster.

I was a little upset because some big tall collector/dealer from Kentucky physically tore the gun apart to examine it and was negotiating with the seller for a long time. He offered $1000 but the dealer tightly gripped is brand new blue book an refused the offer. Perhaps he saw me standing there and knew I was interested. When the collector walked away, I walked up and offered $1100 and got the gun. When I got home, I took the gun apart and found that the gun is all matching except for the hold open which is one number off. I am not too upset about that.

I rest of the show, though, was upsetting. I found two navies. One was at Cosiers table and it was just sold so I couldn't look at it. Richard was talking to some guy for hours and his wife didn't want to bother much with a customer so I couldn't look at an artillery that was there. I did see the price tag on the navy and it said $4795. Must have been some navy.

So I went over to my favorite table at FGS. They had only one navy and it was a 1906 navy 1st issue altered that I had seen a few shows ago for $2900. I don't want it then for any price but now it was $4395. Good marketing strategy. If you don't sell it at first then up the price by nearly $2000.

Saw some so-so artilleries that the dealers had for $2400. Saw a garbagey 1917 for $1800. I personally thought the prices were rediculous.

I met Charlie Justmann of Riverbend Sports and took an instant dislike for the guy. He was selling P-38 magazines to dealers and I asked him if he had any Luger magazines. He said yes and I asked him if he had a list of the serial numbers. He then went into a temper tandtrum and said he he did not have the time and this is all business and yahda, yahda, yahda. If I wanted to go through his magazines then I should drive up to Wisconsin and go through his inventory myself. He is a very uptight, type A personality. I guess that he has not heard about making up inventory lists on computer.

So I went to the coffee room to calm down and re-focus on the gun that I eventually bought. I got into a conversation with another collector. I told him that a dealer by the name of Feit was at the show and he had about 10-15 Lugers and that there was a nice 1941 Mauser Banner there but that it did not have a matching magazine. The collector perked up and told me that he had sold a very nice Luger to Feit some time ago with a matching magazine. At the next gun show, he saw his gun on the table but it did not have the matching mag. It seems that when Feit buys a gun he just throws the mag in a box with other mags. When you buy a gun, he just reaches into the box and grabs whatever he grabs. As a collector, that sorta bugged me.

But I though the show was OK. I got a nice Luger and met a bunch of good people. Shocked by the prices of Navy Lugers but happy that I already have a bunch of them. Met that tall guy that almost bought the gun that I eventually bought and he was a real gentleman and I encourged him to join the forum. He had never heard of us. I only paid a $1.30 for gas in Ohio. But most of all, I managed to keep this post short. As everyone knows, I am normally a pretty quiet guy. Yah right!
Big Norm

[George Anderson]

Big Norm, don't sell Fred Fiet short, he is a close friend of Ralpf Shattuck and knows the business quite well.

[Edward Tinker]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">When I got home, I took the gun apart and found that the gun is all matching except for the hold open which is one number off. I am not too upset about that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I agree, I'd be happy.

Sounds overall like a stressful, but good day at the show Big Norm!

[Big Norm]

Ed,
no stress for me. Aside from the above mentioned people, I met some good people and had some laughs. Thats important too.
Something may come of that big guy from Kentucky. I don't think that my willingness to trade my chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery really registered with him. I think that when he gets home, he will look in his books and see what I am talking about. I think he thought that I was talking about a Model 1914 DWM Artillery. I keep thinking about it and chuckling to myself. But I will see him again.
Big Norm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Big Norm]

George Anderson,
I never once challenged Fred Fiets Luger knowledge or the authenticity of his guns. I don't know you would get the idea that I thought or heard otherwise.
Big Norm

[Lugerlvr]

Sorry guys but I have to comment on this one. Big Norm in no way put Fred down. Most dealers do exactly that they put the guns away and put all the magazenes in a heap. You want to know why? I'll educate you who don't know. In some states and cities in America, it is illegal to transport handguns while traveling in their state with a clip in the gun, loaded or not. Fred Fiet, Bob Simpson, and Ralph Shattuck are among some of the best Luger experts in the world. Remember one thing. (gained from my personal experience, dealing with all three of them). They are in business to make money. If you buy, they listen. When you cease buying they cease listening, until you buy some more. As a collector, you need to be aware of this fact and behave accordingly. No sentimentality, warm fuzzys, or chumming around. It's a fact. It is not exclusive to this area of the hobby. Sorry if it seems a little raw, but "once bitten, twice shy". I'm sure some of our seasoned members would agree. All three of them, as well as other dealers are good people, but there is a bottom line.

For what it's worth? Hey Big Norm!, my best!

TC

[lugerholsterrepair]

TC, Very sage advice.

Big Norm, Thanks for the tour! Enjoyed it very much.

George, I know of what you speak...Jerry Burney

[Lugerlvr]

Holsterpair,

Thanks for your kind words. As many of you know from the other board, I started a thread that eventually lead to my dismissal from that board. I have apologized, learned and in my opinion grown from the experience. And heck i'm here aren't I? I made a conscious choice to bring a private matter to a place it didn't belog, this forum. It quickly grew, tempers flared, it got blown out of proportion, ect. Now a year later, I look back on it and wonder if I really wrote some of those things? Valid points, wrong place.

If any of you are at all like me, I get major goosebumps when I find an extrordinary deal or exceptional piece of what could have been (Money, good looks, and inginuity, non-withstanding) part of my collection! That is because I'm a collector at heart. Sure I like things to be worth something, but at this point in my collecting, the History/Provenance mean more than the price. I'll bore the new collectors (hate the term newbies, sounds like you should be wearing diapers!), with two short examples.

1) My absolute favorite Luger is a 1939 Dated 42 code, with if lucky 65% finish left on it. It was my first, and it allows me to cycle "Snap-Cap" after "Snap-Cap" through it, and shoot it to my hearts content. If a part breaks Tom Heller fixes it. He is truly the best luger gunsmith, and a great guy to boot! No worries here at all! Now my 1929 Swiss Rig in 99+% stays put, and I wear gloves when ever i touch it!
2) A few years back, I left my Human Services position, to take a job at one of the nations biggest Sporting Goods Stores. I'm not going to tell you who, but if you guessed five choices, it would be there, guarenteed. Anyway, I was the Handgun Manager for one of their stores. In the course of business I bought, sold and traded for allot of guns. I was also responsible for the profit of the department.(A little Apple Polishing here, #1 in the chain for Handgun Sales all the time I was manager) Everyone knows that you make your money on the used trades, rather than the new gun sales(competitive pricing. Wal-Mart 10,000 Rem. 870's, Bob's Hardware 25. Wal-mart's price $125.00, Bob's $175.00). The idea is to buy the guns low and sell them high a 40% markup at least. Salesmen paid according to the profit 2%!!!! I know, not much money. Sceniaro: WWII Widow comes in w/ a full Luger Carbine Rig. TRUE STORY! The Store Manager gives her $300.00, because she "just wants it out of the house". I left the next day. My hobby/passion at that point was not fun anymore.

My point is that dealers see the bottom line, first. They have to! or they wouldn't be in business! Collectors see the excitement and passion of owning something they have never been lucky to own before. The dealer, if he's big enough has had dozens of your new found treasure.
It's hard, for me anyway, at times, to keep my enthusiasum for the hobby strong. I guess that is OUR ongoing challenge.

Sorry for being so "long in the tooth"

My best,

TC

[Ron Wood]

It's nice to see a kinder, gentler Tim. Welcome back guy.

[Big Norm]

Tim,
I have gotten long in tooth a few times myself. So I can't complain when someone else does it. You are absolutely correct when describing dealers. Nothing against them. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, I was salivating when I found that 1937 S/42. The guy had two Lugers and was gripping the blue book with white knuckles. Somebody beat me to the 1915 DWM w/matching mag. But I still got something. I couldn't put my new Luger in my carrying case because it would crush my lunch donuts. It tickled me when all the dealers who saw me asked what I had in my Luger holster.

I go to estate auctions all over sounthern Michigan because I know that I can beat dealers. But a lot of times I get beat out because some other bidders go irrationally crazy.

I have not scored yet with a Luger but I go to a lot of garage sales. Try to meet those little old ladies who are selling their deceased husbands collections. Scored good on a CZ-27 and a Mauser Model-1934 but no Lugers. Scored good on an estate sale and got a mint 1900 AE w/Ideal stock for $1600. A dealer there had the Luger priced right for him but he totally ignored the Ideal rig.

Right now I have been watching one dealer at OGCA for over a year. He has a skunky Kreighoff that he has over priced for the condition. Some day he is going to give up on the gun and I may pick it up cheap. Anyway, thats the plan.

But bargains sometimes pop out of nowhere. I picked up two chamber dated 1914 DWM artilleries for $3500. While I was bragging, one came out of nowhere for $1500. I never moved so fast in my life.
Big Norm

[MauserLugers]

Hello Norm,
Look at your private message please. -- Bill

[Big Norm]

Bill,
I got your message. I also sent you a reply. Lets see if we can ride this pony. <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />
Big Norm