30 Cal Loads

kidvett · 04-20-2003, 10:48 AM

Gearing up for some shootin...

In trying to develop loads for that 30 Cal 5 inch Shooter, I'm limited to Hornady's 90gr XTP bullet...

I plan to use either Win 231 or HP 38 powder.

Can anybody suggest some loads...

Also, I'm looking for a supplyer of 30 Cal FMJ bullets as I expect possible jams with the XTP...

Thanks for the help

kidvett

Hugh · 04-22-2003, 01:09 AM

Kidvett,

I did not have much luck in getting reliable functioning from WW231 without excessive pressure, I didn't try HP38. Best loads were 6.0gr Unique, 7.5gr Blue Dot or HS7, 5.6gr SR4756. I had no problems with 60 gr or 85 gr XTP or Gold Dots feeding reliably.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

unspellable · 04-22-2003, 08:31 AM

I have run WW231 loads on paper with the 93 grain hardball and the pressure goes too high before you reach enough impulse to cycle the action. Case of theory and practice agree for once. The 7.65 Parabellum likes a bit slower powder than you might expect.

Thor · 04-22-2003, 09:41 AM

Unique has worked well for me! It is strange that both the old Lyman and newer Lyman book both list this caliber with around 4.5 grs of Unique which DONT WORK AT ALL! I have good luck with 5.5 grs of Unique, but I would imagine that Blue dot would work fine too, especially with Hugh's recommendations, as he fires a lot of 30 Luger rounds. Blue dot works good in Artillery length barrels too. I would imagine that blue dot would be IDEAL for a 30 Luger with a carbine length barrel. I read that the original loading for the carbine was around 1400 fps.

unspellable · 04-22-2003, 12:22 PM

I tried 4.6 grains of Unique behind the 100 grain Plinker. Doesn't have enough steam to cycle reliably in either a Luger or a Ruger. This is not to say Unique is a bad powder for the cartridge, just that you need to use a bit more of it.

I got tired of wimpy factory loads and bought the Ruger P89 in 7.65 in hopes I'd have something to empty the factory loads with so I could reload them for the Luger. Ruger furnishes a softer recoil spring for the 7.65 than for the 9 mm.

The factory loads do not cycle any better in the Ruger than in the Luger. If you happen to stumble across a left over box of Remington/Peters I suspect they are loaded a tad stiffer than Winchester or Fiocchi. At least some Peters went through the Ruger with out a hitch although the ejection was not what you'd call vigourous.

The original carbine load ran 1400 fps from the actual carbine (as opposed to a test barrel) with an 11 inch barrel. This was an average velocity from about 5 feet in front of the muzzle to about 105 feet from the muzzle. Note that this is not the same thing as muzzle velocity, it would correspond to a muzzle velocity on the order of 1450 fps or better. This load ran about the same working pressure as the proof load for the plain pistol, on the order of 40,000 cup.

While the turn of the century methods of measuring velocity were quite different from today's, and yielded slightly different numbers, they were quite accurate. We can assume the measured average velocity across the trap was very close to the true average velocity across the trap.

kidvett · 04-22-2003, 09:58 PM

Thanks guys for the help!

I do have some Blue Dot. I shoot 8.0 gr with a 124 gr FMC bullet in 9mm 4 inch shooters...It's a powerfull load

For that 5 inch .30 cal I'll start at around 7.0 grains and work it up...

Hugh: is that 7.5 gr Blue Dot load a maximum load?? Did you carefully brought it up there for that specific pistol ??

I'm stuck with that XTP bullet as it is the only one available around here

Past experiences with those XTP bullets in heavy loads ( 180gr .357's and 300gr 44's ) always gave poor accuracy...

I have to say that my 29 shoots 3/4 in at 50yds with it's pet hunting load of 300gr bullet... Perhaps I'm expecting too much

kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Freischütz · 04-22-2003, 10:44 PM

I have good results with either 5.4 gr of HS-6 or 6.5 gr of AA7.

Hugh · 04-26-2003, 07:06 PM

Kidvett,

The 7.5 Blue Dot load was worked up to, until I got reliable functioning in several 4" & 6' bbl Lugers without seeing any signs of high pressure. I did not go any higher once I got reliable functioning, so do not know how close to max it is.

kidvett · 04-27-2003, 12:20 PM

Hugh,

Thanks for the info. I ll go with that 7.5 gr load as soon as I get bullets...

kidvett

Jeff in Cincinnati · 06-10-2003, 03:23 PM

I tried some 4.9 Unique loads with the XTP hollowpoint in an Interarms Parabellum. Functioned the gun fine, and the hollowpoint did feed OK after the first round, but getting the first round in a magazine to feed was less than fun. Accuracy wise it did very well at 25 yards, about 2 inches from a rest, 10 ring size group in a standard 25 yeard center. Pressure seemed mild - to the extent smooth brass, smooth rounded fired primers as well as cases landing five or six feet behind the line are any indication. I'm going to work with it some more.

kidvett · 07-04-2003, 11:12 AM

Hello,

I did some shooting with the 5 in 30 Cal Shooter and got good results with 7.3gr Blue Dot & 90gr XTP...

Can someone recommend a load with Win 231 Powder??
Manuals recommend starting at 4.2gr but that seems low & underpowered to me!

Does anybody has experience with HP38 in 30 Cal loads?? I was thinking around 4.5gr to start with...old Lyman manual says!

Jeff: Your 2 in @ 25 yds is good BUT Lugers can do a lot more than this....Last summer an old original 1900AE gave me 1 1/2 in @ 50 yds! from the rest...with Western yellow box ammo ( old again! )

Thanks for the recommendations! Good shooting!

kidvett

unspellable · 07-07-2003, 01:16 PM

Kidvett,

I do not think 231 is a likely powder for the 7.65. Starting from Winchester's published load and running the numbers on the back of the envelope, I hit the SAAMI maximum pressure before I got a decent velocity. I think as a real world thing the pistol will easily take more then the SAAMI max prsssure, but there are other powders that seem to be better. The to 7.65 seems to like its powder a bit slower than the 9 mm.

Of course I did this on the back of the envelope, not an actual load, but still I'd expect 231 to run up more pressure than velocity. Keep in mind Winchester's numbers are not real world either, they are from a 4.5 inch test barrel bored to SAAMI minimums, a lot tighter than a real Luger barrel. I've never been able to reach any of Winchester's published velocities, even with a 6 inch barrel.

04-20-2003, 10:48 AM	#1
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	30 Cal Loads Gearing up for some shootin... In trying to develop loads for that 30 Cal 5 inch Shooter, I'm limited to Hornady's 90gr XTP bullet... I plan to use either Win 231 or HP 38 powder. Can anybody suggest some loads... Also, I'm looking for a supplyer of 30 Cal FMJ bullets as I expect possible jams with the XTP... Thanks for the help kidvett

04-22-2003, 01:09 AM	#2
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Kidvett, I did not have much luck in getting reliable functioning from WW231 without excessive pressure, I didn't try HP38. Best loads were 6.0gr Unique, 7.5gr Blue Dot or HS7, 5.6gr SR4756. I had no problems with 60 gr or 85 gr XTP or Gold Dots feeding reliably. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

04-22-2003, 09:41 AM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Unique has worked well for me! It is strange that both the old Lyman and newer Lyman book both list this caliber with around 4.5 grs of Unique which DONT WORK AT ALL! I have good luck with 5.5 grs of Unique, but I would imagine that Blue dot would work fine too, especially with Hugh's recommendations, as he fires a lot of 30 Luger rounds. Blue dot works good in Artillery length barrels too. I would imagine that blue dot would be IDEAL for a 30 Luger with a carbine length barrel. I read that the original loading for the carbine was around 1400 fps. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-26-2003, 07:06 PM	#8
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Kidvett, The 7.5 Blue Dot load was worked up to, until I got reliable functioning in several 4" & 6' bbl Lugers without seeing any signs of high pressure. I did not go any higher once I got reliable functioning, so do not know how close to max it is. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

04-22-2003, 08:31 AM	#3
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I have run WW231 loads on paper with the 93 grain hardball and the pressure goes too high before you reach enough impulse to cycle the action. Case of theory and practice agree for once. The 7.65 Parabellum likes a bit slower powder than you might expect.

04-22-2003, 12:22 PM	#5
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I tried 4.6 grains of Unique behind the 100 grain Plinker. Doesn't have enough steam to cycle reliably in either a Luger or a Ruger. This is not to say Unique is a bad powder for the cartridge, just that you need to use a bit more of it. I got tired of wimpy factory loads and bought the Ruger P89 in 7.65 in hopes I'd have something to empty the factory loads with so I could reload them for the Luger. Ruger furnishes a softer recoil spring for the 7.65 than for the 9 mm. The factory loads do not cycle any better in the Ruger than in the Luger. If you happen to stumble across a left over box of Remington/Peters I suspect they are loaded a tad stiffer than Winchester or Fiocchi. At least some Peters went through the Ruger with out a hitch although the ejection was not what you'd call vigourous. The original carbine load ran 1400 fps from the actual carbine (as opposed to a test barrel) with an 11 inch barrel. This was an average velocity from about 5 feet in front of the muzzle to about 105 feet from the muzzle. Note that this is not the same thing as muzzle velocity, it would correspond to a muzzle velocity on the order of 1450 fps or better. This load ran about the same working pressure as the proof load for the plain pistol, on the order of 40,000 cup. While the turn of the century methods of measuring velocity were quite different from today's, and yielded slightly different numbers, they were quite accurate. We can assume the measured average velocity across the trap was very close to the true average velocity across the trap.

04-22-2003, 09:58 PM	#6
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks guys for the help! I do have some Blue Dot. I shoot 8.0 gr with a 124 gr FMC bullet in 9mm 4 inch shooters...It's a powerfull load For that 5 inch .30 cal I'll start at around 7.0 grains and work it up... Hugh: is that 7.5 gr Blue Dot load a maximum load?? Did you carefully brought it up there for that specific pistol ?? I'm stuck with that XTP bullet as it is the only one available around here Past experiences with those XTP bullets in heavy loads ( 180gr .357's and 300gr 44's ) always gave poor accuracy... I have to say that my 29 shoots 3/4 in at 50yds with it's pet hunting load of 300gr bullet... Perhaps I'm expecting too much kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

04-22-2003, 10:44 PM	#7
Freischütz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 125 Thanks: 9 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts	I have good results with either 5.4 gr of HS-6 or 6.5 gr of AA7.

04-27-2003, 12:20 PM	#9
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hugh, Thanks for the info. I ll go with that 7.5 gr load as soon as I get bullets... kidvett

06-10-2003, 03:23 PM	#10
Jeff in Cincinnati User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I tried some 4.9 Unique loads with the XTP hollowpoint in an Interarms Parabellum. Functioned the gun fine, and the hollowpoint did feed OK after the first round, but getting the first round in a magazine to feed was less than fun. Accuracy wise it did very well at 25 yards, about 2 inches from a rest, 10 ring size group in a standard 25 yeard center. Pressure seemed mild - to the extent smooth brass, smooth rounded fired primers as well as cases landing five or six feet behind the line are any indication. I'm going to work with it some more.

07-04-2003, 11:12 AM	#11
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello, I did some shooting with the 5 in 30 Cal Shooter and got good results with 7.3gr Blue Dot & 90gr XTP... Can someone recommend a load with Win 231 Powder?? Manuals recommend starting at 4.2gr but that seems low & underpowered to me! Does anybody has experience with HP38 in 30 Cal loads?? I was thinking around 4.5gr to start with...old Lyman manual says! Jeff: Your 2 in @ 25 yds is good BUT Lugers can do a lot more than this....Last summer an old original 1900AE gave me 1 1/2 in @ 50 yds! from the rest...with Western yellow box ammo ( old again! ) Thanks for the recommendations! Good shooting! kidvett

07-07-2003, 01:16 PM	#12
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Kidvett, I do not think 231 is a likely powder for the 7.65. Starting from Winchester's published load and running the numbers on the back of the envelope, I hit the SAAMI maximum pressure before I got a decent velocity. I think as a real world thing the pistol will easily take more then the SAAMI max prsssure, but there are other powders that seem to be better. The to 7.65 seems to like its powder a bit slower than the 9 mm. Of course I did this on the back of the envelope, not an actual load, but still I'd expect 231 to run up more pressure than velocity. Keep in mind Winchester's numbers are not real world either, they are from a 4.5 inch test barrel bored to SAAMI minimums, a lot tighter than a real Luger barrel. I've never been able to reach any of Winchester's published velocities, even with a 6 inch barrel.