OT - Steyr-Hahn ammo

Karl · 10-13-2002, 01:48 PM

I need advice on suitable ammo for a 1912 Steyr-Hahn. The seller of the pistol I'm interested in, as well as another vender at the gun show, claimed that 9mm largo worked fine. Sounded suspicious to me. I would appreciate any advice/experience on this or information on where to get "real" 9mm Steyr ammo. KFS

Dwight Gruber · 10-13-2002, 03:56 PM

Karl,

The Steyer-Hahn is chambered for the 9x23mm Bergmann-Bayard round. It is known by several different names, the Spaniards call it 9mm Largo, so your gun show information is on the money. You might also see it as 9mm Bayard or 9mm Bayard Long.

The bad news is, it is devilishly hard ammunition to find. The last commercial source I know for it was CCI Blazer, it is not currently in their catalog. I have found it by haunting gun shows and miscellaneous tables in gun shops (I shoot an Astra 400, when I can find the ammo). I have found both Spanish commercial ammo from the 50s (noncorrosive), and Spanish military rounds from the 40s. Be careful with the military stuff, it is probably corrosive and requires gun cleaning immediately after shooting.

There are a couple of ammunition dealers who specialize in hard-to-find items, I don't know them specifically, but others on the forum can probably point you to them or you can search them out online.

As a last comment, check for a "P-08" stamping on the back-left part of the slide. Ezell (P. 364) notes that the Germans rebarrelled some of these in 9mm Luger around 1938 and so marked them.

Anyway, good luck with it, and good shooting.

--Dwight

one gunner · 10-13-2002, 06:27 PM

You can try Old Western Scrounger for Ammo.

I believe Midway sales has 9mm Largo empty brass that is made by Starline. Contact either company.

Ammo was available a couple of months ago in 9mm Largo from AIM a company that sells military surplus arms.

I could be wrong about this one but I believe you can neck up Tokeroff brass from 30 to 9mm and this may give you more than enough length on the length of the brass. Simply trim to proper length.

Also if you can find any the 9mm Winchester magnum brass could also be trimmed to proper length to make the 9mm Styer.

If you are not a reloader the doors are often closed to you when it comes to making ammo to shoot in old obsolete pistols. If you are mechanically inclined reloading is a fasinating hobby in and of itself because with it you can bring many old obsolite pistols back to life like a Phoenix rising from its own ashes.

Doubs · 10-13-2002, 09:02 PM

Try Starline at: http://www.starlinebrass.com/. They have 9mm Largo brass at $52 per 500 cases. They also are promising new .30 Luger brass very soon.

Another case you could use is the 9x23 Winchester which should work as-is. Case capacity is smaller because it's thicker brass but you can allow for that by loading slightly lighter.

Edmond , DCB shooting · 11-04-2002, 03:46 PM

You can use 38 Super Comp brass too. NEVER shoot spanish ammo in a 1912, it is way too hot, pressure level is even higher than CIP ( european equivalent to SAAMI ) maximum level...

ken d · 11-04-2002, 10:25 PM

Hello Karl:
I dont know if anyone mentioned it but Stripper clips makes loading the Steyr-Hahn a lot easier. If you dont have any, send me your address and I will give you a few.

Regards

Ken D

Steve Richards · 11-05-2002, 02:05 AM

I just bought some snap caps for my Mauser broomhandle in .30 Mauser and the card that came with them says that A-Zoom makes snap caps for the 9mm Auto Steyr (their name). They also have some of the more obscure rifle chamberings such as 600 Nitro Express. Now that would make an armadillo or possum rifle! Check them out at www.pachmayr.com

Elmer1007 · 11-05-2002, 06:47 AM

There are several dimenional differces between the 9mm Steyr for the 1912 and the 9 mm Largo

neck size Largo = .375 Steyr = .380
rim size Largo = .392 Steyr = .381
base size Largo = .390 Steyr = .380
case length Largo = .90 Steyr = .91
overall length Largo = 1.32 Steyr = 1.30
The largo is sometimes referred to as the
9 x 23 and the Steyr as the 9 x 23.5

I have a .38 super Sig 220 that will shoot the Largo but will not chamber the Steyr.
Elmer.

Karl · 11-08-2002, 05:37 PM

Many thanks to all who have contributed their advice and knowledge, and even offered stripper clips (thanks Ken but I did get several with the gun). Steve I'm glad to learn that snap caps are available since I sometimes take friends shooting who have never fired a gun before. As stated above the 9mm Steyr has slightly different case dimensions than Bergman-Bayard/Largo. More importantly, the Bergman-Bayard/Largo is a much hotter round (9mm Steyr is about 1080). I've decided not to test the limits of 80 year old steel with hotter ammo. Instead I ordered 500 rounds of Fiocchi 9mm Steyr from the local distributer. I also secured a small quantity of RWS ammo dated 1935. If anyone happens upon old 9mm Steyr ammo at a gun show please give me a heads up. KFS PS: I'm not a reloader and if anyone wants my empty brass let me know.

Lugerdoc · 11-10-2002, 07:36 AM

Karl, I agree with Elmer that their are enough differences between the the 9mm Steyr and the 9mm Largo, that the latter will not work consistently in your M1912. I do have a few 50rd boxes of original RWS 9mm Steyr ammo or new boxer primed Midway ammo @$25 per box. Also have a couple of 16 round boxes of RWS on ORIGINAL strippers @$15. and repro 8rd clips @50 cents each or 3 for $1.

Karl · 11-11-2002, 04:36 PM

Tom,

Just sent you an e-mail. I will take a few boxes. The Fiocchi ammo I ordered is about $19. per box but the factory rep said it might take months to fill the order. KFS

10-13-2002, 01:48 PM	#1
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	OT - Steyr-Hahn ammo I need advice on suitable ammo for a 1912 Steyr-Hahn. The seller of the pistol I'm interested in, as well as another vender at the gun show, claimed that 9mm largo worked fine. Sounded suspicious to me. I would appreciate any advice/experience on this or information on where to get "real" 9mm Steyr ammo. KFS

11-04-2002, 03:46 PM	#5
Edmond , DCB shooting User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: FRANCE Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You can use 38 Super Comp brass too. NEVER shoot spanish ammo in a 1912, it is way too hot, pressure level is even higher than CIP ( european equivalent to SAAMI ) maximum level... __________________ Shoot'in by DCB

11-05-2002, 06:47 AM	#8
Elmer1007 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There are several dimenional differces between the 9mm Steyr for the 1912 and the 9 mm Largo neck size Largo = .375 Steyr = .380 rim size Largo = .392 Steyr = .381 base size Largo = .390 Steyr = .380 case length Largo = .90 Steyr = .91 overall length Largo = 1.32 Steyr = 1.30 The largo is sometimes referred to as the 9 x 23 and the Steyr as the 9 x 23.5 I have a .38 super Sig 220 that will shoot the Largo but will not chamber the Steyr. Elmer. __________________ Got any carbines?

11-10-2002, 07:36 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Karl, I agree with Elmer that their are enough differences between the the 9mm Steyr and the 9mm Largo, that the latter will not work consistently in your M1912. I do have a few 50rd boxes of original RWS 9mm Steyr ammo or new boxer primed Midway ammo @$25 per box. Also have a couple of 16 round boxes of RWS on ORIGINAL strippers @$15. and repro 8rd clips @50 cents each or 3 for $1. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-13-2002, 03:56 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Karl, The Steyer-Hahn is chambered for the 9x23mm Bergmann-Bayard round. It is known by several different names, the Spaniards call it 9mm Largo, so your gun show information is on the money. You might also see it as 9mm Bayard or 9mm Bayard Long. The bad news is, it is devilishly hard ammunition to find. The last commercial source I know for it was CCI Blazer, it is not currently in their catalog. I have found it by haunting gun shows and miscellaneous tables in gun shops (I shoot an Astra 400, when I can find the ammo). I have found both Spanish commercial ammo from the 50s (noncorrosive), and Spanish military rounds from the 40s. Be careful with the military stuff, it is probably corrosive and requires gun cleaning immediately after shooting. There are a couple of ammunition dealers who specialize in hard-to-find items, I don't know them specifically, but others on the forum can probably point you to them or you can search them out online. As a last comment, check for a "P-08" stamping on the back-left part of the slide. Ezell (P. 364) notes that the Germans rebarrelled some of these in 9mm Luger around 1938 and so marked them. Anyway, good luck with it, and good shooting. --Dwight

10-13-2002, 06:27 PM	#3
one gunner User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You can try Old Western Scrounger for Ammo. I believe Midway sales has 9mm Largo empty brass that is made by Starline. Contact either company. Ammo was available a couple of months ago in 9mm Largo from AIM a company that sells military surplus arms. I could be wrong about this one but I believe you can neck up Tokeroff brass from 30 to 9mm and this may give you more than enough length on the length of the brass. Simply trim to proper length. Also if you can find any the 9mm Winchester magnum brass could also be trimmed to proper length to make the 9mm Styer. If you are not a reloader the doors are often closed to you when it comes to making ammo to shoot in old obsolete pistols. If you are mechanically inclined reloading is a fasinating hobby in and of itself because with it you can bring many old obsolite pistols back to life like a Phoenix rising from its own ashes.

10-13-2002, 09:02 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,673 Thanks: 773 Thanked 1,618 Times in 527 Posts	Try Starline at: http://www.starlinebrass.com/. They have 9mm Largo brass at $52 per 500 cases. They also are promising new .30 Luger brass very soon. Another case you could use is the 9x23 Winchester which should work as-is. Case capacity is smaller because it's thicker brass but you can allow for that by loading slightly lighter.

11-04-2002, 10:25 PM	#6
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Hello Karl: I dont know if anyone mentioned it but Stripper clips makes loading the Steyr-Hahn a lot easier. If you dont have any, send me your address and I will give you a few. Regards Ken D

11-05-2002, 02:05 AM	#7
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just bought some snap caps for my Mauser broomhandle in .30 Mauser and the card that came with them says that A-Zoom makes snap caps for the 9mm Auto Steyr (their name). They also have some of the more obscure rifle chamberings such as 600 Nitro Express. Now that would make an armadillo or possum rifle! Check them out at www.pachmayr.com

11-08-2002, 05:37 PM	#9
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	Many thanks to all who have contributed their advice and knowledge, and even offered stripper clips (thanks Ken but I did get several with the gun). Steve I'm glad to learn that snap caps are available since I sometimes take friends shooting who have never fired a gun before. As stated above the 9mm Steyr has slightly different case dimensions than Bergman-Bayard/Largo. More importantly, the Bergman-Bayard/Largo is a much hotter round (9mm Steyr is about 1080). I've decided not to test the limits of 80 year old steel with hotter ammo. Instead I ordered 500 rounds of Fiocchi 9mm Steyr from the local distributer. I also secured a small quantity of RWS ammo dated 1935. If anyone happens upon old 9mm Steyr ammo at a gun show please give me a heads up. KFS PS: I'm not a reloader and if anyone wants my empty brass let me know.

11-11-2002, 04:36 PM	#11
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	Tom, Just sent you an e-mail. I will take a few boxes. The Fiocchi ammo I ordered is about $19. per box but the factory rep said it might take months to fill the order. KFS