Navy Barrel Proof...???

Pete Ebbink · 10-24-2003, 12:40 PM

This 1908 Navy gun is now on Auction Arms...nevermind the refinish...

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5090642

But the barrel has the 3-lobed C/M proof while the rest of the gun has the pentagon (w/small circle) C/M proofs...

Do our Navy folks think this is odd...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 10-24-2003, 02:31 PM

Coming from this seller I would almost guarantee it to be fake. He mis-identifies about 95% of what he lists.

Tom A

Herb · 10-24-2003, 03:59 PM

Pete, an observation. The markings on the left reciever are correct for 1908, actually 1904 to 1920, however I can't find any info on that barrel marking. An odd thing is the reciever 'crowns' have what appears to be a dot or something in the center of them, this area should be blank. Also the 'crowns' appear to be sitting on a line on the top of the M, the line should not be there. It could just be the lighting but in the photos I looked at the blueing on the barrel appears to be somewhat darker than that of the reciever. The seller states that it may have been professionally refinished, I think that it has had some kind of reworking at one time. I don't know him but he has a pretty good seller feedback. If it is a rework he wants way too much for it.

larry · 10-26-2003, 05:28 PM

I am looking at my 1908 now and my barrel has the serial number in that area along with a smaller navy proof mark. The crown proof mark located on the left side of the receiver and closest to the barrel is also located on the left side of my barrel about one half inch in front of the receiver proofs.
Has that Navy has been rebarreled?
larry

Pete Ebbink · 10-26-2003, 05:56 PM

Hello Herb,

The "pentagon" type of Navy crown should have a small "+" inside the inside-most pentagon...

Jan Still ran a very good navy proof string, recently, on his web site :

http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=421

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Dan Clemons · 10-31-2003, 12:25 AM

I sent a note to the seller after taking a close look at it. The pitting on the toggle is absent on the rest of the parts. The blue on the barrel does not match the blue on the receiver. I don't know if the barrel is suppose to be numbered to the gun or not. I'm a model 1914 guy. All the proofs looked odd to me almost as if they were carved rather than stamped. About the only thing on the Navy that is real is the pitted toggle. I told him it was worth $1,500 as a shooter.

Dan

Vlim · 10-31-2003, 10:43 AM

It looks like a decent commercial got reworked into a LP08...Fresh barrel, fresh proofs and an old toggle...

John Sabato · 10-31-2003, 11:58 AM

Okay...my turn with some photographic forensics...

Disregarding the Kriegsmarine stamps ( I will let our resident Navy folks comment on their authenticity) Here are the images:

I see four different number stamp fonts used...

The numbers on the safety bar and the takedown lever seem to be from the same stamp...

The numbers on the top of the rear toggle/sight (100) are different from the number on the back of the toggle... notice the difference in the shape of the ZERO and the fact that the number "1" in the "100" has a large flat serif at it's bottom and the number "4" in the "04" has a small serif not nearly as large as that on the number "1"

The numbers stamped into the front of the frame are totally different set of stamps and the shape of the zero doesn't match any of the other zeros used on the gun...

Lastly, the fact that the sear bar is of a post 1916 type that has been relieved to allow opening the toggle with the safety on seems out of place on this gun.

I think this is a GREAT looking gun, but I agree with the opinion that this was a Commercial Luger that has had a Navy rear toggle/sight installed and has been "matched" by the assembler rather than the manufacturer... and is worth about $1500 as a great Navy look-a-like shooter.

FWIW, that is my

10-24-2003, 12:40 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Navy Barrel Proof...??? This 1908 Navy gun is now on Auction Arms...nevermind the refinish... http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5090642 But the barrel has the 3-lobed C/M proof while the rest of the gun has the pentagon (w/small circle) C/M proofs... Do our Navy folks think this is odd...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

10-24-2003, 03:59 PM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, an observation. The markings on the left reciever are correct for 1908, actually 1904 to 1920, however I can't find any info on that barrel marking. An odd thing is the reciever 'crowns' have what appears to be a dot or something in the center of them, this area should be blank. Also the 'crowns' appear to be sitting on a line on the top of the M, the line should not be there. It could just be the lighting but in the photos I looked at the blueing on the barrel appears to be somewhat darker than that of the reciever. The seller states that it may have been professionally refinished, I think that it has had some kind of reworking at one time. I don't know him but he has a pretty good seller feedback. If it is a rework he wants way too much for it. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

10-31-2003, 12:25 AM	#6
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I sent a note to the seller after taking a close look at it. The pitting on the toggle is absent on the rest of the parts. The blue on the barrel does not match the blue on the receiver. I don't know if the barrel is suppose to be numbered to the gun or not. I'm a model 1914 guy. All the proofs looked odd to me almost as if they were carved rather than stamped. About the only thing on the Navy that is real is the pitted toggle. I told him it was worth $1,500 as a shooter. Dan __________________ Loving Lugers

10-31-2003, 11:58 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Okay...my turn with some photographic forensics... Disregarding the Kriegsmarine stamps ( I will let our resident Navy folks comment on their authenticity) Here are the images: I see four different number stamp fonts used... The numbers on the safety bar and the takedown lever seem to be from the same stamp... The numbers on the top of the rear toggle/sight (100) are different from the number on the back of the toggle... notice the difference in the shape of the ZERO and the fact that the number "1" in the "100" has a large flat serif at it's bottom and the number "4" in the "04" has a small serif not nearly as large as that on the number "1" The numbers stamped into the front of the frame are totally different set of stamps and the shape of the zero doesn't match any of the other zeros used on the gun... Lastly, the fact that the sear bar is of a post 1916 type that has been relieved to allow opening the toggle with the safety on seems out of place on this gun. I think this is a GREAT looking gun, but I agree with the opinion that this was a Commercial Luger that has had a Navy rear toggle/sight installed and has been "matched" by the assembler rather than the manufacturer... and is worth about $1500 as a great Navy look-a-like shooter. FWIW, that is my __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-24-2003, 02:31 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Coming from this seller I would almost guarantee it to be fake. He mis-identifies about 95% of what he lists. Tom A

10-26-2003, 05:28 PM	#4
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	I am looking at my 1908 now and my barrel has the serial number in that area along with a smaller navy proof mark. The crown proof mark located on the left side of the receiver and closest to the barrel is also located on the left side of my barrel about one half inch in front of the receiver proofs. Has that Navy has been rebarreled? larry

10-26-2003, 05:56 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Herb, The "pentagon" type of Navy crown should have a small "+" inside the inside-most pentagon... Jan Still ran a very good navy proof string, recently, on his web site : http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=421 Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

10-31-2003, 10:43 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,957 Times in 1,200 Posts	It looks like a decent commercial got reworked into a LP08...Fresh barrel, fresh proofs and an old toggle...