Mauser Luger 9mm with suppressor

MG · 06-05-2003, 10:04 PM

Hello all,
Thanks for all the help, I just leave the bid as is and see what happens. Soo... I was looking again on gunbroker and saw this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=9293607

I remember sometime ago that a topic was on such a item and thought I would share with you.

Thanks
Michael

Ron Wood · 06-05-2003, 11:41 PM

If the suppressor is actually functional, and from the description I would guess it is, this is a Class III weapon and requires a $250 transfer fee (I think it is still $250, could be more by now). I think that is what the note "All NFA Rules apply" means. Silenced/suppressed weapons are neat but are carefully monitored by BATF since their use very often is criminal rather than urban target shooting. This is a modern modification, and not a period "silencer" which is quite rare and expensive.

unspellable · 06-06-2003, 08:37 AM

Ron, I must partially disagree with you. It is true the BATF closely monitors legally possesed class III firearms. Here in Iowa the state law prohibits civilian possesion. How ever, there is no record of a legally possesed class III firearm in civilian hands having ever been used in a crime anywhere in the US since the 1930's.

The average criminal would have no concept of the requiremnts of a supressed weapon for subsonic ammo, etc. When suppressors were freely available they were mainly used for shooting garden pests in an urban invironment.

It is unfortunate that too many movies have employed the "revolver with silencer" resulting in a totally erroneous public perception of what a suppressor is, how it works, or what it is used for.

As for such criminal activity with class III firearms that does occur, it's mainly full auto weapons illegally possesed and smuggled in by organized drugs. As such it's totally outside the provinance of the BATF regulations. The most they can hope to do is arrest somebody for a violation after the fact.

Ron Wood · 06-06-2003, 10:21 AM

NoÃ?Â«l,
You very likely are correct in all your comments. I think that although it isn't too probable that the "average" criminal is aware of the requirements to fire a suppressed weapon, there are probably a few above average criminals who can read and understand the principles. Also, 9mm or other large caliber seems an odd choice to decimate garden pests when a .22 or pellet gun would suffice. I think that it is as much the appearance of criminal intent rather than actual use that prompts the control of suppressed weapons.

John Sabato · 06-06-2003, 10:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unspellable:
there is no record of a legally possesed class III firearm in civilian hands having ever been used in a crime anywhere in the US since the 1930's. <hr /></blockquote>There was a single case (the last time I researched this) of a legally owned subgun being used in a crime in Ohio... but unspellable was right in that it was not used by a civilian...it was used by a off-duty policeman who legally had possession of the registered subgun. Memory fails me on the dates and the exact details but IIRC, the dude found his girlfriend or wife with someone else... and he "ventilated" one or both of them. Not much press given to that incident as I recall...

This type of information is best found at Tom Bower's Politically Incorrect message boards at Subguns.com That is where the LEGAL Class III firearms crowd hangs out.

and Ron, unless they have changed the law, the NFA transfer tax is only $200.00 at my last check some months ago.

The study of old class three guns is my second interest... but they are WAY out of my price range... I don't own any, and can't afford to feed one if I did own one <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

unspellable · 06-06-2003, 12:40 PM

Ron,

My garden pests have antlers. There are days when I wish I had a suppressor for my 458 Winchester.

(Oddly enough, a shortened version of the 458 case with a subsonic load was used on an experimental basis for a short range jungle sniping rifle in Nam.)

Back in the good old days most suppressors were found on 22's and the like. I've heard this is still the case in New Zealand.

Also back in the thirties the class III catagory was established not so much because of criminal activity as because of the Red scare. As opposed to today's gun control movement which exists not so much because of criminal activity as for the sake of governmental control of the common man. (Now I'm starting to rant and rave again!!!)

06-05-2003, 10:04 PM	#1
MG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser Luger 9mm with suppressor Hello all, Thanks for all the help, I just leave the bid as is and see what happens. Soo... I was looking again on gunbroker and saw this: http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=9293607 I remember sometime ago that a topic was on such a item and thought I would share with you. Thanks Michael __________________ MG "Si vis pacem, para bellum" 'If you want peace,prepare for war'

06-05-2003, 11:41 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,101 Times in 1,678 Posts	If the suppressor is actually functional, and from the description I would guess it is, this is a Class III weapon and requires a $250 transfer fee (I think it is still $250, could be more by now). I think that is what the note "All NFA Rules apply" means. Silenced/suppressed weapons are neat but are carefully monitored by BATF since their use very often is criminal rather than urban target shooting. This is a modern modification, and not a period "silencer" which is quite rare and expensive. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-06-2003, 10:21 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,101 Times in 1,678 Posts	NoÃ?Â«l, You very likely are correct in all your comments. I think that although it isn't too probable that the "average" criminal is aware of the requirements to fire a suppressed weapon, there are probably a few above average criminals who can read and understand the principles. Also, 9mm or other large caliber seems an odd choice to decimate garden pests when a .22 or pellet gun would suffice. I think that it is as much the appearance of criminal intent rather than actual use that prompts the control of suppressed weapons. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-06-2003, 10:54 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by unspellable: there is no record of a legally possesed class III firearm in civilian hands having ever been used in a crime anywhere in the US since the 1930's. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">There was a single case (the last time I researched this) of a legally owned subgun being used in a crime in Ohio... but unspellable was right in that it was not used by a civilian...it was used by a off-duty policeman who legally had possession of the registered subgun. Memory fails me on the dates and the exact details but IIRC, the dude found his girlfriend or wife with someone else... and he "ventilated" one or both of them. Not much press given to that incident as I recall... This type of information is best found at Tom Bower's Politically Incorrect message boards at Subguns.com That is where the LEGAL Class III firearms crowd hangs out. and Ron, unless they have changed the law, the NFA transfer tax is only $200.00 at my last check some months ago. The study of old class three guns is my second interest... but they are WAY out of my price range... I don't own any, and can't afford to feed one if I did own one <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-06-2003, 08:37 AM	#3
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Ron, I must partially disagree with you. It is true the BATF closely monitors legally possesed class III firearms. Here in Iowa the state law prohibits civilian possesion. How ever, there is no record of a legally possesed class III firearm in civilian hands having ever been used in a crime anywhere in the US since the 1930's. The average criminal would have no concept of the requiremnts of a supressed weapon for subsonic ammo, etc. When suppressors were freely available they were mainly used for shooting garden pests in an urban invironment. It is unfortunate that too many movies have employed the "revolver with silencer" resulting in a totally erroneous public perception of what a suppressor is, how it works, or what it is used for. As for such criminal activity with class III firearms that does occur, it's mainly full auto weapons illegally possesed and smuggled in by organized drugs. As such it's totally outside the provinance of the BATF regulations. The most they can hope to do is arrest somebody for a violation after the fact.

06-06-2003, 12:40 PM	#6
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Ron, My garden pests have antlers. There are days when I wish I had a suppressor for my 458 Winchester. (Oddly enough, a shortened version of the 458 case with a subsonic load was used on an experimental basis for a short range jungle sniping rifle in Nam.) Back in the good old days most suppressors were found on 22's and the like. I've heard this is still the case in New Zealand. Also back in the thirties the class III catagory was established not so much because of criminal activity as because of the Red scare. As opposed to today's gun control movement which exists not so much because of criminal activity as for the sake of governmental control of the common man. (Now I'm starting to rant and rave again!!!)