First Post First Luger Help ID

bleumoon · 12-01-2003, 04:32 PM

Hi, Great website! This is my first post about my first Luger. I have looked at every picture and read all the information provided here. But I am still having problems dating my recent purchase. Any help would be great! I have downloaded the Identification form and completed the form. 7.65 30 cal. Toggle Ins. is DWM but also has a horizonal crown N on the side of toggle {photo 5} where the white arrow is pointing, takes a magnifing glass to see and still not to plain. The Vertical crown N is also located on the left side {photo 5}. No grip safty. Does have the stock lug. The serial number is 1977 located on barrel and above trigger guard with a letter which looks like an {k} beneath the 1977. I tried to take a photo of this but no luck. The number 77 is located on all other parts that I see without breaking down the gun. Measuring the barrel from forward end of extractor to muzzle I get 3 3/4" or a little shorter but not 4". Magazine bottom is wood but I find no number anywhere on it. Grips are checkered wood. I believe that the gun has been reblued. That's about it for the description. I paid $425 and I would love to know it's value.

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2003, 09:11 PM

I would also venture that it has been re-blued, as the pictures seem to show very light pits with blue over them.

Still, a nice looking Luger, probably a commercial of a WW1 gun, the date has been ground off and then sent to the US as a commercial piece. (true commercials didn't have a suffix, almost universally military, plus the caliber is almost never military).

A "shooter" goes from $400-$550 where I am, 30's seem to go for a bit less, but you paid a decent price for it.

Ed

Navy · 12-01-2003, 10:25 PM

Hi bleumoon,

Based on the pictures, you have a pure shooter re-blue. At $425 or so, it is money well spent..these things were going for about $300-350 only a few years ago.
Tom A.

bleumoon · 12-01-2003, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the replies! That is the way I was leaning, a 1920 commercial rework of a military luger. In my Firearms Price and Reference Guide it says exported guns were marked "Germany" but guns sold in Germany were not marked. So I guess this gun made it way here after being sold commercialy in Germany. It also mentioned removing of the proof marks which this gun still has. And was the only place I saw mention of a 3.5" barrel which this could be, but if I am measuring it right it is 3 3/4". Also this is the only gun I have noticed here that has a horizonal "crown N" proof mark on the toggle. Is this unusual? I bought the gun to shoot so I don't mind the rebluing but the cost of ammo here is $28 for 50 rds. so I don't think I will be shooting it a whole lot. Thanks for the help!

Edward Tinker · 12-02-2003, 12:23 AM

As I said, it was probably made after WW1, this is the Weimar era, you find a vast range of barrel lengths, calibers, etc., during this time-frame.

The horizontal crown N is seen on commercial pieces, are there any proof marks on the right?

Ed

bleumoon · 12-02-2003, 12:32 AM

No, there are no other proof marks other than the two I mentioned, both on the left side.

Lugerdoc · 12-02-2003, 09:49 AM

Bleumoon, You have a reblued 1920 commerical with the 7.65x95mm barrel, which is normal, as is the horizontal C/N on the center toggle link. Your side plate profile appears a bit strange. Unless it is numbered with the last 2 digits of the serial on the lower edge, it may be a repro replacement. Still @$450, a fair price in today's market. TH

bleumoon · 12-02-2003, 02:49 PM

Yes lugerdoc, it does have the 2 digits of the serial on the lower edge. Thanks for the info! I saw in a post in another forum that lugerdoc might have what is needed to convert a 30 cal. to 9mm. Would this devalue the price of this luger or since it is reblued anyway wouldn't make any difference? 30 cal. ammo is so expensive I'd rather have a 9mm. Or could you set it up to change barrels?

Dwight Gruber · 12-02-2003, 03:56 PM

Bluemoon,

Because your Lugewr is reblued, the fact that it is matching is its last vestige of authenticity. It would be a shame to rebarrel and lose that, when boring out to 9mm is practical. You will need to change the recoil spring to one appropriate to the heavier charge.

--Dwight

bleumoon · 12-03-2003, 12:57 AM

Thanks Dwight, Is that all there is to it? Can you use the same magazine? About how much should that cost? And has anyone had it done? Sounds like the way to go to me. Had to order a box of 30 cal. should be in wednesday, will be running to the range to try it out!

bleumoon · 12-04-2003, 12:21 AM

Thanks Rick for all the info. Finally got to shot it today and now I see what all the fuss is about. It made me look good. Best groupings I have had to date. I'll admit I was a little nervous shoting a 80 year old gun for the first time but after that first shot it was like I'd shot it for years. Don't think I could stand to own one and not shot it often. I'm hooked! I think I'll just find a 9mm and keep the 30 cal. also. This could get habit forming. Never have done any reloading but it may be time to learn. Thanks everyone for all the great help!

John Sabato · 12-04-2003, 01:03 PM

bleumoon,

You have just discovered what many of us have known for years... A Luger feels like it is part of your hand... not just something you are holding

That comfort certainly makes a difference in what you can hit!

Steve Richards · 12-04-2003, 08:31 PM

Welcome to the .30 Luger fan club! If you don't want to reload, I can send you the info on a loader in my area that ships via UPS and they run $85.00/250. It is still more than 9mm but cheaper than any others that I have found and they cycle in my three guns without a hitch.

No financial ties, just a customer.

bleumoon · 12-04-2003, 08:45 PM

Wow Steve that sounds great! Would love to have the info. Thanks!

Steve Richards · 12-05-2003, 12:35 AM

The person who does the loading is Richard Specht.

Email: ammoman2@msn.com
Phone : 503-390-9192
Fax 503-390-9144

The load is 95gr FMJ at 1330FPS out of a rebarreled Glock so they are fairly hot.

He also loads for many other "odd" cartriges.

He ships UPS to street addresses only. NO PO Boxes.

12-01-2003, 04:32 PM	#1
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First Post First Luger Help ID Hi, Great website! This is my first post about my first Luger. I have looked at every picture and read all the information provided here. But I am still having problems dating my recent purchase. Any help would be great! I have downloaded the Identification form and completed the form. 7.65 30 cal. Toggle Ins. is DWM but also has a horizonal crown N on the side of toggle {photo 5} where the white arrow is pointing, takes a magnifing glass to see and still not to plain. The Vertical crown N is also located on the left side {photo 5}. No grip safty. Does have the stock lug. The serial number is 1977 located on barrel and above trigger guard with a letter which looks like an {k} beneath the 1977. I tried to take a photo of this but no luck. The number 77 is located on all other parts that I see without breaking down the gun. Measuring the barrel from forward end of extractor to muzzle I get 3 3/4" or a little shorter but not 4". Magazine bottom is wood but I find no number anywhere on it. Grips are checkered wood. I believe that the gun has been reblued. That's about it for the description. I paid $425 and I would love to know it's value.

12-01-2003, 09:11 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	I would also venture that it has been re-blued, as the pictures seem to show very light pits with blue over them. Still, a nice looking Luger, probably a commercial of a WW1 gun, the date has been ground off and then sent to the US as a commercial piece. (true commercials didn't have a suffix, almost universally military, plus the caliber is almost never military). A "shooter" goes from $400-$550 where I am, 30's seem to go for a bit less, but you paid a decent price for it. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-02-2003, 12:23 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	As I said, it was probably made after WW1, this is the Weimar era, you find a vast range of barrel lengths, calibers, etc., during this time-frame. The horizontal crown N is seen on commercial pieces, are there any proof marks on the right? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-02-2003, 09:49 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Bleumoon, You have a reblued 1920 commerical with the 7.65x95mm barrel, which is normal, as is the horizontal C/N on the center toggle link. Your side plate profile appears a bit strange. Unless it is numbered with the last 2 digits of the serial on the lower edge, it may be a repro replacement. Still @$450, a fair price in today's market. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-04-2003, 01:03 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	bleumoon, You have just discovered what many of us have known for years... A Luger feels like it is part of your hand... not just something you are holding That comfort certainly makes a difference in what you can hit! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-01-2003, 10:25 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi bleumoon, Based on the pictures, you have a pure shooter re-blue. At $425 or so, it is money well spent..these things were going for about $300-350 only a few years ago. Tom A.

12-01-2003, 11:54 PM	#4
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the replies! That is the way I was leaning, a 1920 commercial rework of a military luger. In my Firearms Price and Reference Guide it says exported guns were marked "Germany" but guns sold in Germany were not marked. So I guess this gun made it way here after being sold commercialy in Germany. It also mentioned removing of the proof marks which this gun still has. And was the only place I saw mention of a 3.5" barrel which this could be, but if I am measuring it right it is 3 3/4". Also this is the only gun I have noticed here that has a horizonal "crown N" proof mark on the toggle. Is this unusual? I bought the gun to shoot so I don't mind the rebluing but the cost of ammo here is $28 for 50 rds. so I don't think I will be shooting it a whole lot. Thanks for the help!

12-02-2003, 12:32 AM	#6
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No, there are no other proof marks other than the two I mentioned, both on the left side.

12-02-2003, 02:49 PM	#8
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes lugerdoc, it does have the 2 digits of the serial on the lower edge. Thanks for the info! I saw in a post in another forum that lugerdoc might have what is needed to convert a 30 cal. to 9mm. Would this devalue the price of this luger or since it is reblued anyway wouldn't make any difference? 30 cal. ammo is so expensive I'd rather have a 9mm. Or could you set it up to change barrels?

12-02-2003, 03:56 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,893 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	Bluemoon, Because your Lugewr is reblued, the fact that it is matching is its last vestige of authenticity. It would be a shame to rebarrel and lose that, when boring out to 9mm is practical. You will need to change the recoil spring to one appropriate to the heavier charge. --Dwight

12-03-2003, 12:57 AM	#10
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight, Is that all there is to it? Can you use the same magazine? About how much should that cost? And has anyone had it done? Sounds like the way to go to me. Had to order a box of 30 cal. should be in wednesday, will be running to the range to try it out!

12-04-2003, 12:21 AM	#11
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Rick for all the info. Finally got to shot it today and now I see what all the fuss is about. It made me look good. Best groupings I have had to date. I'll admit I was a little nervous shoting a 80 year old gun for the first time but after that first shot it was like I'd shot it for years. Don't think I could stand to own one and not shot it often. I'm hooked! I think I'll just find a 9mm and keep the 30 cal. also. This could get habit forming. Never have done any reloading but it may be time to learn. Thanks everyone for all the great help!

12-04-2003, 08:31 PM	#13
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Welcome to the .30 Luger fan club! If you don't want to reload, I can send you the info on a loader in my area that ships via UPS and they run $85.00/250. It is still more than 9mm but cheaper than any others that I have found and they cycle in my three guns without a hitch. No financial ties, just a customer.

12-04-2003, 08:45 PM	#14
bleumoon User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Springdale Arkansas Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow Steve that sounds great! Would love to have the info. Thanks!

12-05-2003, 12:35 AM	#15
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The person who does the loading is Richard Specht. Email: ammoman2@msn.com Phone : 503-390-9192 Fax 503-390-9144 The load is 95gr FMJ at 1330FPS out of a rebarreled Glock so they are fairly hot. He also loads for many other "odd" cartriges. He ships UPS to street addresses only. NO PO Boxes.