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01-01-2003, 10:15 PM | #1 |
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Second round
Lets try again and see if we can stay focused (Luger ID posting} With pictures this time, I would still like to find as much information as I can about what I have. The best I have been able to come up with is it is a 1914 Military model that has been through the Mauser facility sometime during its life. The gun is clean, all the S/N's match except for the sear bar and the barrel is double stamped, once with the S/N and again with the Mauser S/42. I have not been able to establish just what that might mean. Any help would be greatly appreciated. See my first post (LUGER ID) for more details on its history. I do know it has not been out of a locked cabinet since 1955 except when I took it out to make sure it was still oiled etc. I am sure it didnt go any further the preceeding 10 years either. Here are the pictures.
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/barrel.jpg http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/frame.jpg http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/frame-sn.jpg http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/top.jpg http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/619right.jpg http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/619left.jpg If you can shine any light in my eyes thanks and Happy New Year. If any of you out there would care to give me your opinion in the guns condition and or possible value range please do so to my home e-mail Ted@tdspecialties.com Again a big thanks to all. |
01-02-2003, 12:21 AM | #2 |
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Ted G,
In my opinion, your gun is a 1914 DWM Luger that had the original bbl replaced in 1935-1937 at the Mauser Gewehr Factory #3 as evidenced by the addition of the SE GW3 stamp to the left of the original 4 DWM stamps on the right side of the receiver. The S/42 is a "Mauser replacement code" which was on the bbl when it was installed. Apparently at the time of the replacement, the frame's original serial number was stamped on the replacement bbl. This is unusual, as replacement bbls were normally left unmarked. (The GW3 can be found on pages 307 & 309 of WORLD OF LUGERS by Costanzo). The mismatched sear bar could have been added at that time, but was probably added at a different time either before or after the Mauser rebarrel. So...let the sniping began! <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
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01-02-2003, 04:10 PM | #3 |
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Hugh
Accurately & well stated - given the variables/unknowns. John G. - Thanks for the good pictures above which now begin to unlock the provenience of this example. Please understand all "on track" data provided so far has been pertinent. Hugh has arranged this data chronologically where it makes more evolutionary sense. To peel this onion a bit further, I've done some reading and can offer: - Hugh's use of "SE" is Collector's shorthand for the "Stick Wing/Eagle" appearing over the "GW3" receiver marking. Unlike the original Imperial period (1914) acceptance markings of Crown/E(C/E),C/E,C/X and DWM test proof (Beschussadler) Eagle mark to the right, this SE GW3 was used in the early Nazi (1933-1937) time period. - John Walter, in his Luger book on Pgs. 133 & 135, states the "GW3" mark appears on Mauser P.08: possibly a pattern gun retained by 'Gewehrsall Nr.3' (third gun assembly shop) of the Oberndorf factory. - Jan Still, on Pg.203 of his Weimar & Early Nazi Lugers book, advances Starting in late 1934 and continuing until 1942 the German Army received new manufactured Mauser military code Lugers,(S/42,42,byf code). In spite of this inflow of new Lugers, a variety of Weimar or Imperial era Lugers from storage remained in service or were recalled to Army service during the Nazi era. The most common indication of Nazi use is a replacement barrel or matched magazine with Nazi parts or acceptance markings....... An estimated additional 5000 Lugers were recalled to service from storage. Parenthetically, the 1934 holster lends superficial evidence to this rework likely occurring in 1934-1935. If a "GW3" acceptance mark appears on the barrel, this would lend further credence to the statements above. If present, this Inspector's mark would appear on the top left of the barrel (about 10-11 o'clock) at the rear where the barrel screws into the receiver. - The "K" you mention underneath the removable side plate could indicate the year 1934 or, more likely, was a sub-assembly worker's stamp indicating his work had been performed. - John, if any other markings are found on the mag's, it would also help establish additional clues for this piece. For instance, the wood bottom mag is likely the original, Imperial era, matching magazine to this example. The presence or absence of inspector's marks, "b" suffix letter, numerals, size/style of the "619", etc, can all add/subtract to this conclusion. What do you find? One matching mag adds value to this example. This is the "good" news. - Troublesome, with this example, are at least two anomolies as mentioned:
- Without hard documentation, the story becomes only an "educated" guess. As to this Rig's value for Insurance purposes, any evaluation from pictures (without seeing the firearm/holster) and true overall condition of the example is frought with hazards....not the least of which is a universe of dissenting opinions. However, IMHO $1500 comes to mind. This is not what it could be sold for (maybe $900 +/- $200) nor what it is worth nor is this to be considered an offer; but, should adequately cover an equivalent replacement's cost at some time in the future. As you have expressed, the sentimental value has already outweighed any nominal amount. - Trust this illuminates some provenience of this example. Respectfully, Bob |
01-02-2003, 09:51 PM | #4 |
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Thanks much Hugh and Bob. After reading your posts I took another look and sure enough Bob there is another mark on the barrel about 10 o-clock. Don't know why I missed it the first time but it is real small and my eyes are lets say not perfect.
Here is a shot of the SE on the right side. Bob here are the mags. there is what look like some mark between the 619 and the cross and as you can see the aluminium end has a blued tube. And finally the holster. Sorry to say it is san skatekey and rod etc. and the leather is fadded on the front side but it is what it is. I want to thank everyone again. I have learned soooooo much in the past few days my brain in going into overload. Good thing I just retired so I have time to rest during the day. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Best regareds Ted |
01-05-2003, 02:01 AM | #5 |
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John,
I wish to reciprocate to your latest digital pics, by adding the following:
As to cerebral overload, reflect on her present condition. I conclude:
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01-05-2003, 05:34 PM | #6 |
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Ted the suffix letter on the aluminum base mag looks like a 'f' to me. I hope this link works--
http://www.lugerforum.com/lugermarki...xes/suffix.jpg
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