Simson & Co

Simson · 02-16-2003, 08:24 AM

Its my first time writing on this forum I became a member last night. I've got a WWII take home.Quick story " (Not my)Dad shot German first and took his pistol in holster."
I showed to a former collector whose owned hundreds and he can't figure it out for sure. Odd duck?

Toggel: Simson & Co Suhl
Bbl : One waffenampt (sic) 655 (last digit weak) under bird like creature not displayed in Proofmark section approximates First two , #46 and 47.
Loaded chamber indicator :waffenampt bird like creature JE.20 J could be diffrent weak letter

Trigger and side plate: Each have crown over gothic letter could be J, or B, or E, F, T . Tremendous debate.
Two digit SN#: all match except one digit higher on proof marked Trigger, mentioned above.
Mag: 3 digit wooden bottom on silver colored metal small case cursive a with line through it.
Wooden grips with forgotten waffenampt.
Military Frame (according to friend)here is kicker dated 1940.
In all other respects it is quite good looking. Obviously kept in said holster 50-60 years.
I would sincerly appreciate another opinion or two. Thank you Misters Tinker and Dok for hosting this website. Simson

Edited:

John Dunkle owns the site, DOK is the webmaster, I just am a moderator and write too much, but thanks... see below <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed T

Edward Tinker · 02-16-2003, 09:52 AM

Simson, are all numbers matching? That would include (the last two numbers) on the toggle, and many other small parts? Because it is possible the Simson toggle was put on it later as Simson were made only from 1925 - 1928 with the toggle marked,and (and other guns but diff markings) manufacturing until only 1932, (from Still, Weimar Lugers).

Army test proofs are located on the right receiver, barrel and breechblock. Army acceptance stamps located on right receiver and on most parts.

It sure sounds like a put together gun, I realize the Vet said they brought it back, but crown proofs / markings are Imperial, while the other markings indicate later reworkings. Now Simson did re-aresenal many imperial guns, but was out of buisness before 1940.
The receiver would be marked 1940, not the frame? If the frame is marked 1940, where is that number located?

Millville · 02-17-2003, 09:30 AM

Mr. Tinker you are quite correct, it is the receiver,on top in front of bbl, that is marked 1940,and not the frame . All numbers do match except trigger. It's sn#( or whatever) is only two digits, the trigger is one higher, still two digits.

Edward Tinker · 02-17-2003, 09:59 AM

I would say that the frame is from a 1940, while someone tried to at least match numbers when putting it together.

So the toggle has the last two numbers also?

It could very well be from WW2, and is cobbled together from some beat up parts guns. The problem is you never know.

Ed

Millville · 02-17-2003, 11:43 AM

Thankyou Mr.Tinker, cobbled is OK. I just wanted to know.

So the toggle has the last two numbers also-Only on rear toggle with rear sight. Simson & Co. Suhl has no other markings.

02-16-2003, 08:24 AM	#1
Simson New User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Simson & Co Its my first time writing on this forum I became a member last night. I've got a WWII take home.Quick story " (Not my)Dad shot German first and took his pistol in holster." I showed to a former collector whose owned hundreds and he can't figure it out for sure. Odd duck? Toggel: Simson & Co Suhl Bbl : One waffenampt (sic) 655 (last digit weak) under bird like creature not displayed in Proofmark section approximates First two , #46 and 47. Loaded chamber indicator :waffenampt bird like creature JE.20 J could be diffrent weak letter Trigger and side plate: Each have crown over gothic letter could be J, or B, or E, F, T . Tremendous debate. Two digit SN#: all match except one digit higher on proof marked Trigger, mentioned above. Mag: 3 digit wooden bottom on silver colored metal small case cursive a with line through it. Wooden grips with forgotten waffenampt. Military Frame (according to friend)here is kicker dated 1940. In all other respects it is quite good looking. Obviously kept in said holster 50-60 years. I would sincerly appreciate another opinion or two. Thank you Misters Tinker and Dok for hosting this website. Simson Edited: John Dunkle owns the site, DOK is the webmaster, I just am a moderator and write too much, but thanks... see below <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed T

02-16-2003, 09:52 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	Simson, are all numbers matching? That would include (the last two numbers) on the toggle, and many other small parts? Because it is possible the Simson toggle was put on it later as Simson were made only from 1925 - 1928 with the toggle marked,and (and other guns but diff markings) manufacturing until only 1932, (from Still, Weimar Lugers). Army test proofs are located on the right receiver, barrel and breechblock. Army acceptance stamps located on right receiver and on most parts. It sure sounds like a put together gun, I realize the Vet said they brought it back, but crown proofs / markings are Imperial, while the other markings indicate later reworkings. Now Simson did re-aresenal many imperial guns, but was out of buisness before 1940. The receiver would be marked 1940, not the frame? If the frame is marked 1940, where is that number located? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-17-2003, 09:30 AM	#3
Millville New User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ca Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr. Tinker you are quite correct, it is the receiver,on top in front of bbl, that is marked 1940,and not the frame . All numbers do match except trigger. It's sn#( or whatever) is only two digits, the trigger is one higher, still two digits.

02-17-2003, 09:59 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	I would say that the frame is from a 1940, while someone tried to at least match numbers when putting it together. So the toggle has the last two numbers also? It could very well be from WW2, and is cobbled together from some beat up parts guns. The problem is you never know. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-17-2003, 11:43 AM	#5
Millville New User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ca Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thankyou Mr.Tinker, cobbled is OK. I just wanted to know. So the toggle has the last two numbers also-Only on rear toggle with rear sight. Simson & Co. Suhl has no other markings.