Is there a "best' shooter

Sterling · 04-01-2004, 12:42 AM

If I'm looking for a shooter, one that might be shot a lot, should I limit my search to the later years, i.e. the Third Reich? I have hear somewhere that due to manufacturing improvements, and of course being less aged, I would experience possibly less breakage. Is this true? If not necessarily so, then I don't want to limit my search needlessly.

Thanks,
Sterling

Edward Tinker · 04-01-2004, 01:08 AM

I personnaly don't think so.

I have heard the "newer" is better, but if so, then buy a brand new luger in stainless.

On the other hand, some people might say that the earlier guns were more "hand-made", so...

In my opinion, if they are well made, they'll last, but even WW2, i.e. 1942 or 1945 Krieghoffs are over 60 years old!

Not a lot of differnce in 60 years or 90 years old in metal...

Just my 2 cents,

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 04-01-2004, 01:36 AM

I find some value and truth in the aphorism, "collect the Imperials, shoot a Mauser."

--Dwight

Ron Wood · 04-01-2004, 01:45 AM

Great aphorism Dwight. If I might paraphrase: "Collect an original, shoot a reproduction".

Frank · 04-01-2004, 10:01 AM

Or collect the prototype, shoot the real thing!!

Sterling · 04-01-2004, 10:06 AM

You guys kill me. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

George Anderson · 04-01-2004, 12:20 PM

Shoot 'em all 'cept the pointy lookin'
ones with the funny toggles.

Vlim · 04-01-2004, 12:32 PM

Sterling,

Seriously, the 'mother of all shooters' is a VOPO. These postwar East-German police guns were reworked just after the war and have no serious collecting value at the moment. I just bought one for about 250EUR, with 1936 Mauser frame, DWM toggle and postwar barrel. These thingies shoot like razor blades.

The next best are the postwar reworks from former Russian and Eastern European supplies. These were reworked on later dates and most have new barrels added and are reblued. These are priced in the 600 - 900 EUR ranges. Rework quality is better than the VOPO, shooting quality usually isn't, they just 'look' better

After that I would shoot an original non-collector's gun (with mismatched parts, so you don't destroy too much history and finances when things go wrong).

4th place are the new US-made stainless guns. Less classic but still fun.

Definite no-no's are collector grade guns and postwar Mauser Parabellums (unless they fit into category 3). I would also feel guilty about shooting Thor's masterpieces, but that's just personal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 04-01-2004, 12:43 PM

Sterling,

My first luger purchased was my 1970's era Mauser luger, 6", 9mm, swiss style. Think I paid $ 800-850 for a LNIB condition. (You can see a photo or two of my pistol in the Post WWII section with its new 6" holster...)

I shoot this one all the time and figured since this pistol was an "almost new" gun, I could shoot it for years without repair or parts breakage worries. Haven't regretted my decision.

I also shoot a 1920's commerical 6" 30 cal luger and a 1920's 8" 9mm swiss luger...but I hold my breath each time I shoot those older pistols...worrying when something might give out or break...

The folks at the Simpson shop have many of the 1970's lugers offered for sale, their prices seem a tad high, though :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...rms_lugers.htm

They also come up for sale on the gun sites quite often and LF member, Tom Heller, might even have one/some for sale as well...

hellerarms@webtv.net

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Vlim · 04-01-2004, 01:00 PM

Hi Pete,

These current Mauser Parabellum prices are the reason for my exclusion of the MP as a shooter grade gun. Prices have been steadily increasing and their relatively low numbers and good quality means they are bound to end up as collector's pieces.

Therefore I would not adise to use a mint Mauser Parabellum as a shooter.

(still looking forward to shooting my 'new' 06/73 when it's rebarreled and checked though as it now fits into the shooter category)

Frank · 04-01-2004, 01:43 PM

Gerben, I have two of Thor's Masterpieces, one 1917 DWM and a 41 byf. They are both shooters and do very nicely!! They also get raves at the range!!

Terry, before Thor operated on the 1917, I broke an ejector and an extractor. No big deal on the ejector, but the extractor is a numbered piece. If it would have been a collector, I would have been in deep doo-doo!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

kidvett · 04-01-2004, 11:44 PM

Hello,

Everybody has their favorite shooter pistol & theories....

I believe that a shooter gun must ``shoot`` wherever it is an original, rework, restored piece, etc. It is quite a personnal preference...

Qualities I want in a ``shooter`` Luger ( true for any of my firearms ) are: reliability & accuracy !! Quite simple !! So those average P08 Wartime barrels that have shot corrosive ammo to various degree are out of it. Collector pistols I have are out too ( Re: parts breakage scare !! ) So I get guns built to my liking with the help from my Gunsmith. Always built with a new ( or as new ) barrel cause I want it to be accurate ( ever shot Lugers at 100yds ?? ). All other parts being original parts, no repros. At the moment I have 2 ``shooter guns `` both with Rust Blue/ Strawed parts. One is a 5 inch 30 Cal ( 1 1/2 in @ 50 yds ) The other one a 6 in. 9mm built this winter...that will get it's share of shooting this summer....so far has done cloverleafs @ 20 yds offhand.....Photo below.

MARK

AGE · 04-02-2004, 01:00 AM

I have 2 Lugers, a 1915 Thor DWM restoration and a 1936 matching reblued Mauser. Both shoot well, group well, and are neat fun guns. I baby the Thor gun but shoot the '36 a lot for fun mostly because 9 mm is so cheap. That said, the sights are tiny and the triggers are heavy. If you really want a GREAT shooter get a tuned 1911 with high visibility sights (preferably a .45 but other calibers are available including 9 mm).

Vlim · 04-02-2004, 07:26 AM

Hi Tac,

Here in the old world on the other side of that little ditch called the North Sea, we can only possess guns that we use for sports shooting, so I have little choice (if that matters, since it's so very nice to shoot them) but to shoot them on a regular basis.

If you're in the Netherlands, give me a call and we'll put some rounds through them on the local range.

Vlim · 04-02-2004, 03:41 PM

tac,

Those gun laws are interesting, aren't they? Over here, BP frontloaders (rifles and revolvers), most rimfire guns except 22lr ones and most of the pre-1898 stuff can be owned without license, but then it's illegal to have useable cartridges or loads for them.

04-01-2004, 12:42 AM	#1
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is there a "best' shooter If I'm looking for a shooter, one that might be shot a lot, should I limit my search to the later years, i.e. the Third Reich? I have hear somewhere that due to manufacturing improvements, and of course being less aged, I would experience possibly less breakage. Is this true? If not necessarily so, then I don't want to limit my search needlessly. Thanks, Sterling

04-01-2004, 01:08 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	I personnaly don't think so. I have heard the "newer" is better, but if so, then buy a brand new luger in stainless. On the other hand, some people might say that the earlier guns were more "hand-made", so... In my opinion, if they are well made, they'll last, but even WW2, i.e. 1942 or 1945 Krieghoffs are over 60 years old! Not a lot of differnce in 60 years or 90 years old in metal... Just my 2 cents, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-01-2004, 01:45 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,005 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 5,139 Times in 1,689 Posts	Great aphorism Dwight. If I might paraphrase: "Collect an original, shoot a reproduction". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-02-2004, 01:00 AM	#13
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have 2 Lugers, a 1915 Thor DWM restoration and a 1936 matching reblued Mauser. Both shoot well, group well, and are neat fun guns. I baby the Thor gun but shoot the '36 a lot for fun mostly because 9 mm is so cheap. That said, the sights are tiny and the triggers are heavy. If you really want a GREAT shooter get a tuned 1911 with high visibility sights (preferably a .45 but other calibers are available including 9 mm). __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

04-01-2004, 01:36 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,893 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	I find some value and truth in the aphorism, "collect the Imperials, shoot a Mauser." --Dwight

04-01-2004, 10:01 AM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Or collect the prototype, shoot the real thing!!

04-01-2004, 10:06 AM	#6
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You guys kill me. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

04-01-2004, 12:20 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Shoot 'em all 'cept the pointy lookin' ones with the funny toggles.

04-01-2004, 12:32 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Sterling, Seriously, the 'mother of all shooters' is a VOPO. These postwar East-German police guns were reworked just after the war and have no serious collecting value at the moment. I just bought one for about 250EUR, with 1936 Mauser frame, DWM toggle and postwar barrel. These thingies shoot like razor blades. The next best are the postwar reworks from former Russian and Eastern European supplies. These were reworked on later dates and most have new barrels added and are reblued. These are priced in the 600 - 900 EUR ranges. Rework quality is better than the VOPO, shooting quality usually isn't, they just 'look' better After that I would shoot an original non-collector's gun (with mismatched parts, so you don't destroy too much history and finances when things go wrong). 4th place are the new US-made stainless guns. Less classic but still fun. Definite no-no's are collector grade guns and postwar Mauser Parabellums (unless they fit into category 3). I would also feel guilty about shooting Thor's masterpieces, but that's just personal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

04-01-2004, 12:43 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Sterling, My first luger purchased was my 1970's era Mauser luger, 6", 9mm, swiss style. Think I paid $ 800-850 for a LNIB condition. (You can see a photo or two of my pistol in the Post WWII section with its new 6" holster...) I shoot this one all the time and figured since this pistol was an "almost new" gun, I could shoot it for years without repair or parts breakage worries. Haven't regretted my decision. I also shoot a 1920's commerical 6" 30 cal luger and a 1920's 8" 9mm swiss luger...but I hold my breath each time I shoot those older pistols...worrying when something might give out or break... The folks at the Simpson shop have many of the 1970's lugers offered for sale, their prices seem a tad high, though : http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...rms_lugers.htm They also come up for sale on the gun sites quite often and LF member, Tom Heller, might even have one/some for sale as well... hellerarms@webtv.net Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-01-2004, 01:00 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Pete, These current Mauser Parabellum prices are the reason for my exclusion of the MP as a shooter grade gun. Prices have been steadily increasing and their relatively low numbers and good quality means they are bound to end up as collector's pieces. Therefore I would not adise to use a mint Mauser Parabellum as a shooter. (still looking forward to shooting my 'new' 06/73 when it's rebarreled and checked though as it now fits into the shooter category)

04-01-2004, 01:43 PM	#11
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Gerben, I have two of Thor's Masterpieces, one 1917 DWM and a 41 byf. They are both shooters and do very nicely!! They also get raves at the range!! Terry, before Thor operated on the 1917, I broke an ejector and an extractor. No big deal on the ejector, but the extractor is a numbered piece. If it would have been a collector, I would have been in deep doo-doo!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

04-01-2004, 11:44 PM	#12
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello, Everybody has their favorite shooter pistol & theories.... I believe that a shooter gun must ``shoot`` wherever it is an original, rework, restored piece, etc. It is quite a personnal preference... Qualities I want in a ``shooter`` Luger ( true for any of my firearms ) are: reliability & accuracy !! Quite simple !! So those average P08 Wartime barrels that have shot corrosive ammo to various degree are out of it. Collector pistols I have are out too ( Re: parts breakage scare !! ) So I get guns built to my liking with the help from my Gunsmith. Always built with a new ( or as new ) barrel cause I want it to be accurate ( ever shot Lugers at 100yds ?? ). All other parts being original parts, no repros. At the moment I have 2 ``shooter guns `` both with Rust Blue/ Strawed parts. One is a 5 inch 30 Cal ( 1 1/2 in @ 50 yds ) The other one a 6 in. 9mm built this winter...that will get it's share of shooting this summer....so far has done cloverleafs @ 20 yds offhand.....Photo below. MARK

04-02-2004, 07:26 AM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Tac, Here in the old world on the other side of that little ditch called the North Sea, we can only possess guns that we use for sports shooting, so I have little choice (if that matters, since it's so very nice to shoot them) but to shoot them on a regular basis. If you're in the Netherlands, give me a call and we'll put some rounds through them on the local range.

04-02-2004, 03:41 PM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	tac, Those gun laws are interesting, aren't they? Over here, BP frontloaders (rifles and revolvers), most rimfire guns except 22lr ones and most of the pre-1898 stuff can be owned without license, but then it's illegal to have useable cartridges or loads for them.