Baby Luger

MarkC · 07-09-2004, 02:21 PM

Gentlemen,

I had the day off today and took some photos of some newly added items to the collection including this. I'll post more photos if you guys are interested.

Many thanks to Neil Keller for the gun, Jerry Burney for the holster, Hugh for the grips and Ted for the refinish.

Mark

John Sabato · 07-09-2004, 03:18 PM

Post away Mark... I am sure many will be interested in seeing your newest addition...

Thor · 07-09-2004, 04:05 PM

I love that holster!!!

lugerholsterrepair · 07-09-2004, 04:54 PM

Mark, Thanks for posting photo's of my baby! It's nice to see it and the whole rig together.
I have to say the finish and the grips are top notch!As usual. It's what you would expect from Hugh and Thor(love that straw & the Gesichert!) ...Excellent craftsmanship. Neill looks to have done a great job as well..There are some extremely talented people involved here.
Have you shot it? I kinda remember you saying one mag was not feeding well? Must be complicated to figure out spring pressure?
Wish I had one! Congratulations, Jerry Burney

MarkC · 07-09-2004, 05:24 PM

Jerry the mags don't work well at all. One doesn't allow the toggle to close and the other has too much spring pressure causing the bullets to jam. Neil said he will fix them for me, I have no doubt he will. When I use a WWII mag the gun functions flawlessly. I can shoot nice tight groups at 50 feet even with the reduced barrel length. The gun is all matching except the barrel and is a G date!

I really like this gun!

Here are more photos:

Mark

Ron Wood · 07-09-2004, 06:59 PM

I am EXTREMLY impressed. What a magnificent result from the efforts of the artisans that crafted this rig. You are to be envied and the craftsmen elevated to the highest level of respect. You rarely see that kind of workmanship anymore.

Ron Smith · 07-09-2004, 08:43 PM

Mark, Damn!! What a beautifull rig. Absolutely fantastic. Only in my dreams...!

Ron
PS Sure is amazing what Jerry can do with peelin's off a cow! ;-)

lugerholsterrepair · 07-09-2004, 09:02 PM

Cow peelin's, Now thats one I havn't heard yet. Amazin what people can do if they put some effort into it and a lot of money! Jerry Burney

John Sabato · 07-12-2004, 11:40 AM

Jerry, how do you get the cow to stand still long enough to get the "peelings" ???

lugerholsterrepair · 07-12-2004, 07:24 PM

John, it's like in the Army, you eat the potatoes and if your lucky you don't know how they got that way. Cow Peelins, that Ron Smith cracks me up! Jerry Burney

Lloyd in Nevada · 07-12-2004, 07:57 PM

Jerry & Mark

That holster is absolutely stunning and beautiful let alone the pistol. What a great rig. Yes, you craftsman are really talented! I Stand All Amazed (I think that is a title to a religious song?)at your unique skills and gifts--HECK maybe this almost is a religious experience seeing the "fruits" of your labors! Mark you really know how to pick an outstanding team of Artisans. Congratulations on a truly unique and one of a kind rig! Lloyd in HELL I mean Las Vegas ooooh it is HOT ONE today.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-12-2004, 10:09 PM

LLoyd, Thanks for the admiration of my holster. I agree with you it was a great accomplishment brought together by Mark.
Friend of mine in Yuma said it was 110 there today, nice and cool here in the high mountains!
Jerry Burney

Thor · 07-20-2004, 05:09 PM

Mark's Baby Luger was shown in the July/August 2003 AMERICAN HANDGUNNER magazine on page 40 in an article about Neil Keller's (HUB) Baby Lugers entitled "Mini Fighting Luger". Here is a BEFORE THOR picture of it!
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/NKBaby.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/NKBaby.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Dean · 07-26-2004, 02:30 AM

I am curious, how is the grip shortened on these babies?

Is it performed like a "chop job" on the old hot rods (where a section is removed from the frame and then the frame is re-welded)?

John Sabato · 07-26-2004, 05:00 PM

The simple answer is YES Dean... only with a little more finesse, and precision than you would use on a car frame

Thor · 07-26-2004, 06:12 PM

Hub wrote this for the description of how it is done. First the frame is cut into two pieces and approximately one half inch is removed from the lower portion of the grip. The cutting is done in a wire EDM to assure straight clean cuts. The frame parts are then joined together and TIG welded with a copper mandrel holding the two pieces on the inside. The copper mandrel also helps control the welding heat by acting as a heat-sink. When welding the tool steel which firearms are made from, the metal has to be protected from excessive heat, or hard spots will develop showing up as the dreaded plum-color when blued.

John Sabato · 07-27-2004, 10:37 AM

Thanks Thor for a great description of the finesse, and precision

(even if it was Hub's)

Dean · 08-16-2004, 11:12 PM

Thor, Thanks for the info regarding how the "chop" was performed. I guess 1/2" = one less round in the mag.

Now that I look at it, I notice the grips appear to be chopped as well!

I guess that splice line is about where the chop on the frame was.

I'll have to get a hold of that American Handgunner article.

I don't understand the need to cut the frame with EDM. It gets welded anyway. I would think that the jigging during the weld is the more important aspect.

I have another question about the barrel. The thicker portion that holds the front sight, is that sleeved on then soldered? Or is this part of the the barrel like the originals (integral)?

My gut feeling teels me that it is the portion from the original barrel and some clever machining is performed to mate it to the new, shortened barrel (which itself may be made from the old barrel?)

MarkC · 08-18-2004, 04:43 PM

Dean,

I believe the barrel is chopped near the front sight. Then the front sight/barrel band sleeved over the turned down "stump" at the front of the cut down barrel and re-crowned.

Mark

Thor · 08-18-2004, 07:35 PM

Continuing Hub says: "The barrel is cut off just behind the integral front sight boss and the cut off sight with integral boss is bored out and press fit over the shortened barrel's muzzle. The barrel work is difficult procedure as all numbers and proff marks are held in place."

07-09-2004, 02:21 PM	#1
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Baby Luger Gentlemen, I had the day off today and took some photos of some newly added items to the collection including this. I'll post more photos if you guys are interested. Many thanks to Neil Keller for the gun, Jerry Burney for the holster, Hugh for the grips and Ted for the refinish. Mark

07-09-2004, 03:18 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Post away Mark... I am sure many will be interested in seeing your newest addition... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-09-2004, 04:05 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I love that holster!!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-09-2004, 04:54 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Mark, Thanks for posting photo's of my baby! It's nice to see it and the whole rig together. I have to say the finish and the grips are top notch!As usual. It's what you would expect from Hugh and Thor(love that straw & the Gesichert!) ...Excellent craftsmanship. Neill looks to have done a great job as well..There are some extremely talented people involved here. Have you shot it? I kinda remember you saying one mag was not feeding well? Must be complicated to figure out spring pressure? Wish I had one! Congratulations, Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-09-2004, 06:59 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I am EXTREMLY impressed. What a magnificent result from the efforts of the artisans that crafted this rig. You are to be envied and the craftsmen elevated to the highest level of respect. You rarely see that kind of workmanship anymore. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-09-2004, 05:24 PM	#5
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Jerry the mags don't work well at all. One doesn't allow the toggle to close and the other has too much spring pressure causing the bullets to jam. Neil said he will fix them for me, I have no doubt he will. When I use a WWII mag the gun functions flawlessly. I can shoot nice tight groups at 50 feet even with the reduced barrel length. The gun is all matching except the barrel and is a G date! I really like this gun! Here are more photos: Mark

07-09-2004, 08:43 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Mark, Damn!! What a beautifull rig. Absolutely fantastic. Only in my dreams...! Ron PS Sure is amazing what Jerry can do with peelin's off a cow! ;-) __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-09-2004, 09:02 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Cow peelin's, Now thats one I havn't heard yet. Amazin what people can do if they put some effort into it and a lot of money! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-12-2004, 11:40 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jerry, how do you get the cow to stand still long enough to get the "peelings" ??? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-12-2004, 07:24 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	John, it's like in the Army, you eat the potatoes and if your lucky you don't know how they got that way. Cow Peelins, that Ron Smith cracks me up! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-12-2004, 07:57 PM	#11
Lloyd in Nevada User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry & Mark That holster is absolutely stunning and beautiful let alone the pistol. What a great rig. Yes, you craftsman are really talented! I Stand All Amazed (I think that is a title to a religious song?)at your unique skills and gifts--HECK maybe this almost is a religious experience seeing the "fruits" of your labors! Mark you really know how to pick an outstanding team of Artisans. Congratulations on a truly unique and one of a kind rig! Lloyd in HELL I mean Las Vegas ooooh it is HOT ONE today.

07-12-2004, 10:09 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	LLoyd, Thanks for the admiration of my holster. I agree with you it was a great accomplishment brought together by Mark. Friend of mine in Yuma said it was 110 there today, nice and cool here in the high mountains! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-20-2004, 05:09 PM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Mark's Baby Luger was shown in the July/August 2003 AMERICAN HANDGUNNER magazine on page 40 in an article about Neil Keller's (HUB) Baby Lugers entitled "Mini Fighting Luger". Here is a BEFORE THOR picture of it! <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/NKBaby.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/NKBaby.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-26-2004, 02:30 AM	#14
Dean User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PA Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am curious, how is the grip shortened on these babies? Is it performed like a "chop job" on the old hot rods (where a section is removed from the frame and then the frame is re-welded)? __________________ Carpe Diem, Parabellum

07-26-2004, 05:00 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The simple answer is YES Dean... only with a little more finesse, and precision than you would use on a car frame __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-26-2004, 06:12 PM	#16
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Hub wrote this for the description of how it is done. First the frame is cut into two pieces and approximately one half inch is removed from the lower portion of the grip. The cutting is done in a wire EDM to assure straight clean cuts. The frame parts are then joined together and TIG welded with a copper mandrel holding the two pieces on the inside. The copper mandrel also helps control the welding heat by acting as a heat-sink. When welding the tool steel which firearms are made from, the metal has to be protected from excessive heat, or hard spots will develop showing up as the dreaded plum-color when blued. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-27-2004, 10:37 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thanks Thor for a great description of the finesse, and precision (even if it was Hub's) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-16-2004, 11:12 PM	#18
Dean User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PA Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, Thanks for the info regarding how the "chop" was performed. I guess 1/2" = one less round in the mag. Now that I look at it, I notice the grips appear to be chopped as well! I guess that splice line is about where the chop on the frame was. I'll have to get a hold of that American Handgunner article. I don't understand the need to cut the frame with EDM. It gets welded anyway. I would think that the jigging during the weld is the more important aspect. I have another question about the barrel. The thicker portion that holds the front sight, is that sleeved on then soldered? Or is this part of the the barrel like the originals (integral)? My gut feeling teels me that it is the portion from the original barrel and some clever machining is performed to mate it to the new, shortened barrel (which itself may be made from the old barrel?) __________________ Carpe Diem, Parabellum

08-18-2004, 04:43 PM	#19
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Dean, I believe the barrel is chopped near the front sight. Then the front sight/barrel band sleeved over the turned down "stump" at the front of the cut down barrel and re-crowned. Mark

08-18-2004, 07:35 PM	#20
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Continuing Hub says: "The barrel is cut off just behind the integral front sight boss and the cut off sight with integral boss is bored out and press fit over the shortened barrel's muzzle. The barrel work is difficult procedure as all numbers and proff marks are held in place." __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."