Attorneys on the Forum?

Navy · 10-19-2003, 07:38 PM

All,

Received a bizarre e-mail from a known dealer who specializes in bogus guns and accessories.
Gist of e-mail was that I had Ã¢??Corrupted his systemÃ¢?Â and he had signed a criminal complaint.

Well, as most of you know I lack the technical savvy to post photos so hacking someoneÃ¢??s site or system is borderline comedic.

In any event, I am concerned that this guy is gonna make trouble before he gets back on his meds.

Any Legal Eagles care to opine as to what I should do?

Tom A.

Edward Tinker · 10-19-2003, 08:25 PM

Not a legal eagle Tom, but it is well known that there are spammers with millions of e-mails. I have had my e-mail address used as a spam address, which pisses me off. There are many viruses that an infected computer will "grab" e-mail addresses off of a person's outlook address book and then send out, as if you had sent it. You can read on this on www.symantec.com and other anti-virus (AV) sites, where they explain that stolen e-mails are used by nefarious people.

The point is, that it would be very hard to prove that YOU actually sent him an e-mail that "corrupted his system"...

I would either ignore it, or send him an e-mail and say, I have NOT sent you any e-mails (ever, the last two months, two years, etc.) and that there is no way I CORRUPTED YOUR SYSTEM.

More than likely they either have a "corrupted" system or they have old anti-virus and have a virus on their system, then you could say, hey, I have and always have had the latest AV on my system, so it can't be from me.

Ed

Herb · 10-19-2003, 08:25 PM

Tom, I wouldn't get overly excited unless you actually did it. While it is true his site can gather certain info about everyone that visits it he will have to go to quite lenghty means to get your name and address or even your email address. He will have to contact your ISP (internet service provider) and convince them beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did do it. Even then they may not give him any info without a court order to release the information from thier logs as to the fact that you did in fact visit his site at the exact minute the incident happened and that it was actually you and not one of many others logged on to his site at the same time who did the deed. click on this link for more info on just what is collected by an internet site holder. If anything did happen to his site it was done by someone with more than a basic knowledge of hacking 101.
http://privacy.net/Traced/

Herb · 10-19-2003, 08:36 PM

Ed, and others, your make a good point, hackers can and do get into your computer and actually can take control of it's programs. As a bare minimum you should have a good firewall installed to keep them out. One of the best there is, and it's free for the basic model, is Zone Alarm from Zone Labs. Download it, configure it and no more worries. To get an idea of how vulnerable your computer is, go to http://grc.com and look around for his 'shields up' and 'probe my ports' articles and test your system. Do it again after you install Zone Alarm, big difference. No, I don't work for nor represent either one, I'm just security concious, the internet is a dangerous place.

Edward Tinker · 10-19-2003, 08:41 PM

Herb is right, although I meant more that joe-blow might "think" he had an e-mail from you, and it came from Snogerti the Russian in ole russian land.

And Zone Alarm is a good tool, I used to use it, till I upgraded my AV and Norton Personal Firewall came with it.

Ed

wterrell · 10-19-2003, 09:34 PM

The system corruption must be documented by a verifiable computer/IT expert with a Microsoft license, detailing the precise damage that was done and by what method or agent. Still, he may sue you, and force you to incur legal fees, but unless he has documented proof, it would be a frivolous lawsuit.

If he has a good investigation done of his computer problems, they will most probably find that it was the (latest).worm or its ilk. Suggest to him, as a gesture of generosity, that he research sites such as

http://www.securityfocus.com/virus

or

http://securityresponse.symantec.com...ml#threat_list

before expounding on his computer knowledge and making accusations.

The very best firewall is Tiny Personal Firewall v5 but is it not for a novice (or an expert, for that matter). McAfee and Norton are extremely effective and user friendly, but you need the full complement of tools offered by these venders to have a fully protected computer.

John Sabato · 10-20-2003, 10:19 AM

I use a specially configured Black Ice firewall client supplied by my employer... it works rather well, and most people have no idea just how much they are being probed by unscrupulous hackers until the install a firewall that logs such events...

By all means install a personal firewall even if you only dialing in to the Internet... if you are on some form of high speed or broadband connection you absolutely MUST take steps to protect yourself as suggested by others.

TOM A, forward me a copy of the email that you got so I have an idea of what this twerp has accused you.... I am with the others that the burden of proof is on him...

Big Norm · 10-20-2003, 10:54 AM

Tom,
I am probably even less technically advanced than you about computers. The above wisdom sounds beyond excellent. But as an ex-landlord for some 20 plus years, I can't tell you how many times that I have been threatened with law suit and, yes, even had my life threatened. But I have never been taken to court and I am still breathing. Stay cool and wait to see if he is just blowing smoke. His attorney will probably straighten him out. But don't get mad at him. When a computer goes down, it is understandable that the person will get real mad and want to lash out. Sometimes it gets real lonely when your computer goes down. Stay cool and follow the above wisdom offered by experts of the forum.
Big Norm

Heydrich · 10-20-2003, 11:09 AM

The e-mail address of the person who sent you that vitriolic message is probably the one that is stolen. The tone and content fit right into the pattern of the “mess with your mind” e-mails that hackers use with stolen accounts.

Navy · 10-20-2003, 02:21 PM

Copy of threatening e-mail follows:

Very stupid thing to do we were able to capture your attempt ton corrupt our system. This has been referred to our attorney as well as the local District Attorney (I signed the complaint), for someone that was an officer you are stupid, when I am finished with you you will not be entitled to a retirement check and I will make sure your employer throws your ass out as well. dkf

Interesting about my employer firing me as I am self-employed...

Tom A

John D. · 10-20-2003, 02:51 PM

Ummmm.....

Not to point out the "obvious" here - but ....

First - Wes is absolutely correct.

Second, Tom - you use an AOL account, as your IP resolves to one of their many DHCP/RA servers. These can/will assign IPs even outside your local region, depending on the AOL network load. So who ever "identified you" did so along with several other MILLION AOL users on the AOL network at that time. That would really "narrrow it down" to just you - HUH?? LOL!!!!

Third, having worked with AOL over the past 6 years - I can't tell you what they do - nor how - BUT, it is virtually impossible to HACK into another network/system using an AOL account. Also - IP spoofing is disabled as are the ports commonly used by hackers to gain access to 3rd party systems. It's nearly as difficult for a 3rd party to "spoof" an AOL address block.

Remember - there is no IQ test to connect to the Internet. Nor to send e-mail. If there were, Gore never could have invented the Internet altogether... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

tracyp · 10-20-2003, 03:25 PM

dkf - I wonder who that could be (Copperas Cove, Texas)?

Tom,

I would ignore it, but make sure you save all of the threatening e-mails.

Navy · 10-20-2003, 03:39 PM

Coperas Cove is dead on...and yes I am saving the threatening ones.

And John D, thanks for the tech insight, although I no clue what the words meant.

Will try the uploading drill tonight.
Tom A

John D. · 10-20-2003, 03:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tom A:
 although I no clue what the words meant.....<hr /></blockquote>IP, DHCP, RA are TLAs - i.e. "WTH?"

e.g. "Don't worry about it..."

Good luck posting photos!!!! I'll grab the popcorn and be waiting for your images to hit my "big screen"... <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

Doubs · 10-21-2003, 12:28 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tom A:
Coperas Cove is dead on...and yes I am saving the threatening ones. Tom A<hr /></blockquote>That guy radiates a "Bad News" aura and I refuse to open any of his auctions except by mistake. For whatever reason his "PLEASE DON'T ASK FOR THE RESERVE PRICE" P!$$es me off in the extreme. If the reserve price is what he's willing to take, why not ask? I had a bad feeling about him long before he was mentioned on this board.
<img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 10-21-2003, 12:34 AM

Mister Doubs, Amen to that, accidents only is why I open his auctions! His entire style is too odd for me, and I am afraid I would have to complain to HIS ISP for threatening e-mails...

Ed

George Anderson · 10-21-2003, 09:18 AM

Tom, I still retain the evidence of having been defrauded some years ago. Keep that in mind as you deal with this person.geo

10-19-2003, 07:38 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Attorneys on the Forum? All, Received a bizarre e-mail from a known dealer who specializes in bogus guns and accessories. Gist of e-mail was that I had Ã¢??Corrupted his systemÃ¢?Â and he had signed a criminal complaint. Well, as most of you know I lack the technical savvy to post photos so hacking someoneÃ¢??s site or system is borderline comedic. In any event, I am concerned that this guy is gonna make trouble before he gets back on his meds. Any Legal Eagles care to opine as to what I should do? Tom A.

10-19-2003, 08:25 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Not a legal eagle Tom, but it is well known that there are spammers with millions of e-mails. I have had my e-mail address used as a spam address, which pisses me off. There are many viruses that an infected computer will "grab" e-mail addresses off of a person's outlook address book and then send out, as if you had sent it. You can read on this on www.symantec.com and other anti-virus (AV) sites, where they explain that stolen e-mails are used by nefarious people. The point is, that it would be very hard to prove that YOU actually sent him an e-mail that "corrupted his system"... I would either ignore it, or send him an e-mail and say, I have NOT sent you any e-mails (ever, the last two months, two years, etc.) and that there is no way I CORRUPTED YOUR SYSTEM. More than likely they either have a "corrupted" system or they have old anti-virus and have a virus on their system, then you could say, hey, I have and always have had the latest AV on my system, so it can't be from me. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-19-2003, 08:25 PM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom, I wouldn't get overly excited unless you actually did it. While it is true his site can gather certain info about everyone that visits it he will have to go to quite lenghty means to get your name and address or even your email address. He will have to contact your ISP (internet service provider) and convince them beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did do it. Even then they may not give him any info without a court order to release the information from thier logs as to the fact that you did in fact visit his site at the exact minute the incident happened and that it was actually you and not one of many others logged on to his site at the same time who did the deed. click on this link for more info on just what is collected by an internet site holder. If anything did happen to his site it was done by someone with more than a basic knowledge of hacking 101. http://privacy.net/Traced/ __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

10-19-2003, 08:36 PM	#4
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ed, and others, your make a good point, hackers can and do get into your computer and actually can take control of it's programs. As a bare minimum you should have a good firewall installed to keep them out. One of the best there is, and it's free for the basic model, is Zone Alarm from Zone Labs. Download it, configure it and no more worries. To get an idea of how vulnerable your computer is, go to http://grc.com and look around for his 'shields up' and 'probe my ports' articles and test your system. Do it again after you install Zone Alarm, big difference. No, I don't work for nor represent either one, I'm just security concious, the internet is a dangerous place. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

10-19-2003, 08:41 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Herb is right, although I meant more that joe-blow might "think" he had an e-mail from you, and it came from Snogerti the Russian in ole russian land. And Zone Alarm is a good tool, I used to use it, till I upgraded my AV and Norton Personal Firewall came with it. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-19-2003, 09:34 PM	#6
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The system corruption must be documented by a verifiable computer/IT expert with a Microsoft license, detailing the precise damage that was done and by what method or agent. Still, he may sue you, and force you to incur legal fees, but unless he has documented proof, it would be a frivolous lawsuit. If he has a good investigation done of his computer problems, they will most probably find that it was the (latest).worm or its ilk. Suggest to him, as a gesture of generosity, that he research sites such as http://www.securityfocus.com/virus or http://securityresponse.symantec.com...ml#threat_list before expounding on his computer knowledge and making accusations. The very best firewall is Tiny Personal Firewall v5 but is it not for a novice (or an expert, for that matter). McAfee and Norton are extremely effective and user friendly, but you need the full complement of tools offered by these venders to have a fully protected computer. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

10-20-2003, 10:19 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I use a specially configured Black Ice firewall client supplied by my employer... it works rather well, and most people have no idea just how much they are being probed by unscrupulous hackers until the install a firewall that logs such events... By all means install a personal firewall even if you only dialing in to the Internet... if you are on some form of high speed or broadband connection you absolutely MUST take steps to protect yourself as suggested by others. TOM A, forward me a copy of the email that you got so I have an idea of what this twerp has accused you.... I am with the others that the burden of proof is on him... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-20-2003, 10:54 AM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Tom, I am probably even less technically advanced than you about computers. The above wisdom sounds beyond excellent. But as an ex-landlord for some 20 plus years, I can't tell you how many times that I have been threatened with law suit and, yes, even had my life threatened. But I have never been taken to court and I am still breathing. Stay cool and wait to see if he is just blowing smoke. His attorney will probably straighten him out. But don't get mad at him. When a computer goes down, it is understandable that the person will get real mad and want to lash out. Sometimes it gets real lonely when your computer goes down. Stay cool and follow the above wisdom offered by experts of the forum. Big Norm

10-20-2003, 11:09 AM	#9
Heydrich Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The e-mail address of the person who sent you that vitriolic message is probably the one that is stolen. The tone and content fit right into the pattern of the “mess with your mind” e-mails that hackers use with stolen accounts.

10-20-2003, 02:21 PM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Copy of threatening e-mail follows: Very stupid thing to do we were able to capture your attempt ton corrupt our system. This has been referred to our attorney as well as the local District Attorney (I signed the complaint), for someone that was an officer you are stupid, when I am finished with you you will not be entitled to a retirement check and I will make sure your employer throws your ass out as well. dkf Interesting about my employer firing me as I am self-employed... Tom A

10-20-2003, 02:51 PM	#11
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 514 Times in 128 Posts	Ummmm..... Not to point out the "obvious" here - but .... First - Wes is absolutely correct. Second, Tom - you use an AOL account, as your IP resolves to one of their many DHCP/RA servers. These can/will assign IPs even outside your local region, depending on the AOL network load. So who ever "identified you" did so along with several other MILLION AOL users on the AOL network at that time. That would really "narrrow it down" to just you - HUH?? LOL!!!! Third, having worked with AOL over the past 6 years - I can't tell you what they do - nor how - BUT, it is virtually impossible to HACK into another network/system using an AOL account. Also - IP spoofing is disabled as are the ports commonly used by hackers to gain access to 3rd party systems. It's nearly as difficult for a 3rd party to "spoof" an AOL address block. Remember - there is no IQ test to connect to the Internet. Nor to send e-mail. If there were, Gore never could have invented the Internet altogether... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

10-20-2003, 03:25 PM	#12
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	dkf - I wonder who that could be (Copperas Cove, Texas)? Tom, I would ignore it, but make sure you save all of the threatening e-mails.

10-20-2003, 03:39 PM	#13
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Coperas Cove is dead on...and yes I am saving the threatening ones. And John D, thanks for the tech insight, although I no clue what the words meant. Will try the uploading drill tonight. Tom A

10-20-2003, 03:58 PM	#14
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 514 Times in 128 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A: <strong> although I no clue what the words meant.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">IP, DHCP, RA are TLAs - i.e. "WTH?" e.g. "Don't worry about it..." Good luck posting photos!!!! I'll grab the popcorn and be waiting for your images to hit my "big screen"... <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

10-21-2003, 12:28 AM	#15
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,694 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,676 Times in 550 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A: <strong>Coperas Cove is dead on...and yes I am saving the threatening ones. Tom A</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That guy radiates a "Bad News" aura and I refuse to open any of his auctions except by mistake. For whatever reason his "PLEASE DON'T ASK FOR THE RESERVE PRICE" P!$$es me off in the extreme. If the reserve price is what he's willing to take, why not ask? I had a bad feeling about him long before he was mentioned on this board. <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

10-21-2003, 12:34 AM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Mister Doubs, Amen to that, accidents only is why I open his auctions! His entire style is too odd for me, and I am afraid I would have to complain to HIS ISP for threatening e-mails... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-21-2003, 09:18 AM	#17
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Tom, I still retain the evidence of having been defrauded some years ago. Keep that in mind as you deal with this person.geo