interesting dilemma

trigger643 · 07-31-2003, 01:45 AM

prospect 1. A luger. Restore, keep as original... Though Thor's work is soooo mighty tempting, I would probably settle for an early restored luger in 9mm... I hate rust, I hate pitting. Pet peaves.

So, when restoring a Luger, you really have to put a sign up, or at least I would, saying "not original - but restored". and price it thus.

Prospect 2. Springfield 1903A1 National Match. Rifle sold 1930. Rebarreled by Springfield 1933. Owned by 2 competitive shooters from 1930 to 2003, who applied their personal touches to modify this rifle for competition. Minor things. Sights, bolt, cocking nob, lower barrel band.

Question: Is it restored when I put back on this rifle the correct parts that were taken off? As you all probably know, these are unnumbered parts, these are readily available parts. These are legitimately correct parts. So, does this rifle become a restored rifle or a correct NM rifle? Is this a $3,200 restored rifle, or a $4,200 correct original rifle?

I am not refinishing a single part.

When I offer this rifle for sale, how should I represent it? "Restored", "corrected", "original"?
Keep in mind, I will be including the parts I removed from the rifle with the rifle.

Roadkill · 07-31-2003, 03:11 AM

Thor's restorations are such that the "as issued" factor isn't present. Not many 50+ guns could look that good. In 20 years it will be a problem.
Ref the 03, can't go wrong with being honest.

rk

Edward Tinker · 07-31-2003, 03:29 AM

Depends on the collecting fraternity.

Lugers came with MANY numbered parts. US guns didn't, so although I don't see a difference, US arms collectors are generally happy if the correct part, i.e. period part is on the gun.

Ed

trigger643 · 07-31-2003, 03:47 AM

I deal in a lot of U.S. military arms. Correctness seems to hold priority over originality. When you get into an exotic like a National Match that was a competitive piece for over 30 years, it gets quite sticky as competitive shooters are known for their own little twinks and modifications to get that competitive edge. Yet, the "original parts" to put it back are available. This rifle's bolt and associated parts were really heavily modified, but they can be delt with easily.

saxman · 08-04-2003, 04:57 AM

Do the 03A1 parts have maker codes like M1 Carbine parts? If so, and you put the correct parts on it, I believe it becomes a 'restored' rifle. The 'correct original' must have all it's original parts. Admittedly, a master of matching finishes and aging parts can do one that you can't tell. Most M1 Carbines that you see in early WWII set-up are 'restored' or more commonly called 'put-togethers', but the sellers at the shows don't really advertise this, if they even know. Just like Lugers that have been 'matched' using correct, properly-numbered authentic parts - it can be very hard to tell sometimes if the parts are all original to that individual gun. If the parts' finish has been altered to match the rest of the gun, then that Luger is 'boosted' in my book.

07-31-2003, 01:45 AM	#1
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	interesting dilemma prospect 1. A luger. Restore, keep as original... Though Thor's work is soooo mighty tempting, I would probably settle for an early restored luger in 9mm... I hate rust, I hate pitting. Pet peaves. So, when restoring a Luger, you really have to put a sign up, or at least I would, saying "not original - but restored". and price it thus. Prospect 2. Springfield 1903A1 National Match. Rifle sold 1930. Rebarreled by Springfield 1933. Owned by 2 competitive shooters from 1930 to 2003, who applied their personal touches to modify this rifle for competition. Minor things. Sights, bolt, cocking nob, lower barrel band. Question: Is it restored when I put back on this rifle the correct parts that were taken off? As you all probably know, these are unnumbered parts, these are readily available parts. These are legitimately correct parts. So, does this rifle become a restored rifle or a correct NM rifle? Is this a $3,200 restored rifle, or a $4,200 correct original rifle? I am not refinishing a single part. When I offer this rifle for sale, how should I represent it? "Restored", "corrected", "original"? Keep in mind, I will be including the parts I removed from the rifle with the rifle. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

07-31-2003, 03:29 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,031 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Depends on the collecting fraternity. Lugers came with MANY numbered parts. US guns didn't, so although I don't see a difference, US arms collectors are generally happy if the correct part, i.e. period part is on the gun. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-31-2003, 03:47 AM	#4
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I deal in a lot of U.S. military arms. Correctness seems to hold priority over originality. When you get into an exotic like a National Match that was a competitive piece for over 30 years, it gets quite sticky as competitive shooters are known for their own little twinks and modifications to get that competitive edge. Yet, the "original parts" to put it back are available. This rifle's bolt and associated parts were really heavily modified, but they can be delt with easily. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

08-04-2003, 04:57 AM	#5
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Do the 03A1 parts have maker codes like M1 Carbine parts? If so, and you put the correct parts on it, I believe it becomes a 'restored' rifle. The 'correct original' must have all it's original parts. Admittedly, a master of matching finishes and aging parts can do one that you can't tell. Most M1 Carbines that you see in early WWII set-up are 'restored' or more commonly called 'put-togethers', but the sellers at the shows don't really advertise this, if they even know. Just like Lugers that have been 'matched' using correct, properly-numbered authentic parts - it can be very hard to tell sometimes if the parts are all original to that individual gun. If the parts' finish has been altered to match the rest of the gun, then that Luger is 'boosted' in my book. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

07-31-2003, 03:11 AM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Thor's restorations are such that the "as issued" factor isn't present. Not many 50+ guns could look that good. In 20 years it will be a problem. Ref the 03, can't go wrong with being honest. rk