Some Questions on Restoration from a Newbie

Malcolm P. · 09-27-2004, 10:40 PM

I have just joined the group and plan on putting together a selection of shootable and collectible Lugers over time. Saw a couple of Lugers this weekend at a gun show that I thought about getting but would need very extensive restoration work. I am sure both will be back at the show.

First is a Russian capture gun that was fairly recently imported. It is a honestly a mismatched collection of parts and has seen A LOT of HEAVY use (Stalingrad?). Thing I REALLY liked about it is that the back strap of the receiver has 3 unit markings. Not sure if slide matches receiver date right now, but it is a 1915 chamber date and DWM toggle. No idea what bore looks like. Assuming willing to get (and definitely would not pay near what dealer was asking) and pay for the restoration:
1) Can the visible numbers be remarked to match?
2) Can proof marks be restored?
3) Are replacement barrels available?
I would probably pay less than $300 for the gun. Would probably be willing to pay $400 for a really good restoration.

Second is a Navy Luger (no idea really whether 1908 or 1914) that has been HORRIBLY REFINISHED - basically ruined. I have seen this gun around at the show for several years. It really looks bad even to me!!! Lot of really massive buffing and polishing. Proof marks look completely obliterated. Most numbers gone. High gloss refinish. I am sure the rebluing was very expensive, but to say that for a Luger it looks horrible is an understatement. I just want it to half way look like a military gun again.
1) Can parts be remarked with numbers?
2) Can proof marks be restored?
3) Are replacement barrels available?
Probably pay less than $900 for this one. Probably willing to pay about $400 for restoration.

Does it make any sense to get either one for restoration to shooter condition.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-28-2004, 12:34 PM

Malcome, This kind of talk is blasphemy to many Luger collectors. Restoring a Luger is one thing but actually marking them and fooling with proof marks is seen as fraud to many.
I suggest you put your money into pieces that do not need such extensive restoration. Restoration is not a bad thing, many pistols that have been previously un molested can get a great new facelift, leaving the markings intact. Ted Green (THOR) is the man to talk to about restoring , he's the best in the business IMO.
With mismatched pistols, there is never any really satisfactory solution. It might not even fire a round. Buying either one of these looks like a bad idea to me. Jerry Burney

Lugerdoc · 09-28-2004, 12:37 PM

Malcolm, $400 might get you a rust blue job from a good restorer, but barrel replacement and recutting serials &/or proofs would be extra, and very few restorer are willing to do that type of work, as it might be viewed as fraudulent. The few that are capable and willing to do this complete a job, usually have fees starting @$1000 or more. TH

Navy · 09-28-2004, 10:11 PM

Hi Malcolm and Welcome....

The type of work that you are contemplating on that Navy is a *very* bad idea. First, there are only a handfull of people worldwide who could do that kind of work; secondly, no one reputable would do the number boosting, and lastLY, anyone who has been playing with Navy pieces any length of time would pick up on the fakery very quickly.

My advice: Save your money and buy the best you can afford; never get into "project" guns as they always tend to be money losers and time wasters.

Tom A.

Russ · 09-28-2004, 11:33 PM

Malcolm
Listen to what Tom has said. Always buy the best!
Good stuff is always good! start off with a few books. It will save you lots of $$$$ in the long run.And welcome to the MADNESS

Russ

trigger643 · 10-02-2004, 10:49 PM

I'm having Thor do a 1900 AE now, but it was missing parts, though matching, was junk. Though he offers it now only as an option, I've requested his mark be placed on the piece under the left frame, under the grip, so that future owners will know absolutely that the condition is not original. His restoration is costing more than the original investment and I'll probably have to let Lugerholsterrepairer have the honors of firing the first mag out of it, since he did such a fine job on my c96 rig and the Audley holster.

09-27-2004, 10:40 PM	#1
Malcolm P. User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some Questions on Restoration from a Newbie I have just joined the group and plan on putting together a selection of shootable and collectible Lugers over time. Saw a couple of Lugers this weekend at a gun show that I thought about getting but would need very extensive restoration work. I am sure both will be back at the show. First is a Russian capture gun that was fairly recently imported. It is a honestly a mismatched collection of parts and has seen A LOT of HEAVY use (Stalingrad?). Thing I REALLY liked about it is that the back strap of the receiver has 3 unit markings. Not sure if slide matches receiver date right now, but it is a 1915 chamber date and DWM toggle. No idea what bore looks like. Assuming willing to get (and definitely would not pay near what dealer was asking) and pay for the restoration: 1) Can the visible numbers be remarked to match? 2) Can proof marks be restored? 3) Are replacement barrels available? I would probably pay less than $300 for the gun. Would probably be willing to pay $400 for a really good restoration. Second is a Navy Luger (no idea really whether 1908 or 1914) that has been HORRIBLY REFINISHED - basically ruined. I have seen this gun around at the show for several years. It really looks bad even to me!!! Lot of really massive buffing and polishing. Proof marks look completely obliterated. Most numbers gone. High gloss refinish. I am sure the rebluing was very expensive, but to say that for a Luger it looks horrible is an understatement. I just want it to half way look like a military gun again. 1) Can parts be remarked with numbers? 2) Can proof marks be restored? 3) Are replacement barrels available? Probably pay less than $900 for this one. Probably willing to pay about $400 for restoration. Does it make any sense to get either one for restoration to shooter condition.

09-28-2004, 12:34 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Malcome, This kind of talk is blasphemy to many Luger collectors. Restoring a Luger is one thing but actually marking them and fooling with proof marks is seen as fraud to many. I suggest you put your money into pieces that do not need such extensive restoration. Restoration is not a bad thing, many pistols that have been previously un molested can get a great new facelift, leaving the markings intact. Ted Green (THOR) is the man to talk to about restoring , he's the best in the business IMO. With mismatched pistols, there is never any really satisfactory solution. It might not even fire a round. Buying either one of these looks like a bad idea to me. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-28-2004, 12:37 PM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Malcolm, $400 might get you a rust blue job from a good restorer, but barrel replacement and recutting serials &/or proofs would be extra, and very few restorer are willing to do that type of work, as it might be viewed as fraudulent. The few that are capable and willing to do this complete a job, usually have fees starting @$1000 or more. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-28-2004, 11:33 PM	#5
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Malcolm Listen to what Tom has said. Always buy the best! Good stuff is always good! start off with a few books. It will save you lots of $$$$ in the long run.And welcome to the MADNESS Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

10-02-2004, 10:49 PM	#6
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I'm having Thor do a 1900 AE now, but it was missing parts, though matching, was junk. Though he offers it now only as an option, I've requested his mark be placed on the piece under the left frame, under the grip, so that future owners will know absolutely that the condition is not original. His restoration is costing more than the original investment and I'll probably have to let Lugerholsterrepairer have the honors of firing the first mag out of it, since he did such a fine job on my c96 rig and the Audley holster. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

09-28-2004, 10:11 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Malcolm and Welcome.... The type of work that you are contemplating on that Navy is a very bad idea. First, there are only a handfull of people worldwide who could do that kind of work; secondly, no one reputable would do the number boosting, and lastLY, anyone who has been playing with Navy pieces any length of time would pick up on the fakery very quickly. My advice: Save your money and buy the best you can afford; never get into "project" guns as they always tend to be money losers and time wasters. Tom A.