Luger sub caliber device

Herb · 07-15-2002, 01:42 AM

Does anyone have any idea what this is worth? It is the same as the one on page 386 of Kenyon's Lugers At Random but in 4mm rather than 22 cal. It has two eagles over 77 on one side and one on the back. Serial #1449.

Doug G. · 07-15-2002, 02:15 AM

Does it use special steel inserts for the 4mm round? I have a kit like it for a PP or PPk that uses the 4mm. Don't know what their worth for a P.08, but I bought my Walther kit on Ebay for $90 and got a steal on it! If you plan on shooting it give Bob Simpson a call as I think he still has new manufacturer ammo for the 4mm. Be prepared as it is no longer imported it will run $25 for 100 rounds. It is fun to shoot though as an air rifle is louder!

Herb · 07-15-2002, 02:38 AM

Doug, I think it is used just as-is. The rear is chambered at about 5 or 5 1/2mm and the bore is 4mm. If it uses an insert I don't have it. The ammo price is not bad considering what 30 cal costs. I've had it for quite a few years and was wondering what it was worth as it is not of recent manufacture, I think it might have been made in the early 1900's, but could be wrong on that.

Lugerdoc · 07-15-2002, 08:11 AM

Herb, Judging from the Erma E/77 Waffenamp proof on the barrel assy, it would have to be military made after 1933. If the chamber is too small to accomodate a 22lr round, it must be spoon fed, one round at a time. The mag shown is the 22lr type for the auto loading kit with their own conversion toggle assy. Tom H.

Herb · 07-15-2002, 01:20 PM

Lugerdoc, I agree, but someone is wrong about it. Costanzo shows the spread winged three lined eagle over 77 as a 1934 Erma 22cal conversion unit marking (see pg 361) and Kenyon shows it as a Swiss unit, the markings are identical on the yoke (pg 386). Goes to show ya, even the 'experts' make mistakes, no wonder new collectors get confused. Another interesting observation, both say it is a 22cal unit, this is definitely 4mm, I tried to put a 22 bullet into it, wouldn't come close to fitting. Interesting. 2

07-15-2002, 02:15 AM	#2
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Does it use special steel inserts for the 4mm round? I have a kit like it for a PP or PPk that uses the 4mm. Don't know what their worth for a P.08, but I bought my Walther kit on Ebay for $90 and got a steal on it! If you plan on shooting it give Bob Simpson a call as I think he still has new manufacturer ammo for the 4mm. Be prepared as it is no longer imported it will run $25 for 100 rounds. It is fun to shoot though as an air rifle is louder! __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

07-15-2002, 02:38 AM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Doug, I think it is used just as-is. The rear is chambered at about 5 or 5 1/2mm and the bore is 4mm. If it uses an insert I don't have it. The ammo price is not bad considering what 30 cal costs. I've had it for quite a few years and was wondering what it was worth as it is not of recent manufacture, I think it might have been made in the early 1900's, but could be wrong on that. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-15-2002, 08:11 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Herb, Judging from the Erma E/77 Waffenamp proof on the barrel assy, it would have to be military made after 1933. If the chamber is too small to accomodate a 22lr round, it must be spoon fed, one round at a time. The mag shown is the 22lr type for the auto loading kit with their own conversion toggle assy. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-15-2002, 01:20 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Lugerdoc, I agree, but someone is wrong about it. Costanzo shows the spread winged three lined eagle over 77 as a 1934 Erma 22cal conversion unit marking (see pg 361) and Kenyon shows it as a Swiss unit, the markings are identical on the yoke (pg 386). Goes to show ya, even the 'experts' make mistakes, no wonder new collectors get confused. Another interesting observation, both say it is a 22cal unit, this is definitely 4mm, I tried to put a 22 bullet into it, wouldn't come close to fitting. Interesting. 2 __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-15-2002, 01:42 AM	#1
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Luger sub caliber device Does anyone have any idea what this is worth? It is the same as the one on page 386 of Kenyon's Lugers At Random but in 4mm rather than 22 cal. It has two eagles over 77 on one side and one on the back. Serial #1449. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull