Were any artillery lugers made like this?

JD · 05-25-2004, 02:53 PM

Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm not very knowledeable about artillery models. My local gunshop got in a number of lugers (I have my name on a 1936 S/42 in really nice condition.). Among the lugers is an DWM artillery model. I don't recall the year, but I think it was 1916 or 1917. Barrel and all parts are numbered and match, but the typical long range adjustable rear sight is not there, and the sight slot is filled in with an original looking filler (Nicely machined and fitted.). The actual rear sight is on the back of the toggle, like a standard P08, but is noticeably higher than that found on a 4" barreled gun. The toggle is numbered to the frame in the usual two places and the stampings look original, exact same style numbers and size as should be.

Were any artillery lugers originally made in this configuration without the long range adjustable rear sight, and a toggle mounted sight instead?

Thanks for any help enlightening an artillery ignorant luger fan!

John Sabato · 05-25-2004, 03:53 PM

Sorry JD, This gun has been modified. The rear sight should be on the barrel and the rear sight on the toggle is somebody's way of making this gun shootable after removing and selling the rear sight.

No Artillery model lugers were made by the factory in this condition.

It would take about $300 in parts to return this to "artillery" condition, but it would still be a mixed parts gun... just a shooter. No collector value.

George Anderson · 05-26-2004, 10:45 AM

JD, you mention that the rear sight is higher than that on a normal P08. Is the rear sight, perhaps, adjustable? Is the barrel length 8" or a bit shorter?

Lugerdoc · 05-26-2004, 11:12 AM

JD, I too have seen this configuration before a time or two. I would guess that this was a Stoeger or Pacific Arms modification during the 20s or 30s, to some customer's request, or lack of correct LPO8 rear sights. TH

JD · 05-26-2004, 12:08 PM

George,

No, the rear sight is not adjustable. It looks exactly like a stock 4" barreled P08 sight, only higher.

Thanks to all for their imput. I greatly appreciate all the help I can get!!!!

John Sabato · 05-26-2004, 12:13 PM

Please try to post good sharp photos of the rear toggle/sight and the "filler" that is installed in the artillery rear sight dovetail as soon as you can...

thanks,

Big Norm · 05-27-2004, 12:46 AM

JD,
as John said, it would still be a shooter no matter what you did to it. Stick with your 1936 S/42. You have a prize there so treat it good. Have a little patience and a real artillery, or maybe even a navy, will pop up for you some day when you least expect it.
Big Norm

JD · 06-01-2004, 05:21 PM

I have taken some photos of the artilery luger and it's sights. I hope this works:

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil4.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil4.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

The filler for standard artillery rear sight slot actually fits much tighter than the photos indicate. I didn't disassemble the gun to see if the rear sight was dovetailed into the toggle or not. The work appears to have been done quite some time ago. Workmanship on the alteration is quite good, but still too bad they spoiled a perfectly good artillery. Hope these are of interest. JD

George Anderson · 06-01-2004, 06:01 PM

JD, what was done to the LP08 is a real shame as it is a relatively scarce date. If the filler can be tapped out and the added(?) rear sight machined off, you can hide and watch and wait for an LP08 rear sight to show up in the marketplace.

The rear sight is going to cost at least a hundred bucks so figure from there and add the gunsmithing costs as well to the cost of the gun.

An all original 1917 dated LP08 will cost you about $1200-$2000 depending on the market area and your luck. There is one on Gunbroker.com now that is getting auction weary and can probably be had for less than a grand; maybe $650-$700 as they have previously turned down a high bid of $600. The pistol is listed by a fellow in Texas and seems to be devoid of original finish.

Good hunting.

JD · 06-01-2004, 07:20 PM

George and Rick,

I'm not really interested in this artillery, but I did get a really nice condition (95%) 1936 dated S/42 that was in the same batch that my favorite dealer got in (The S/42 has a pristine bore, and is a beautiful example, and one I could afford.). Someday I would love to get an artillery (or several), but I tend like guns that are in very good condition, and artilleries in very good condition are usually out of my price range....... Someday, though.

This artillery has more finish wear than the photos show, and the bore is somewhat rough. It might make a good shooter for someone though.

JD

05-25-2004, 02:53 PM	#1
JD User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Western Washington Posts: 107 Thanks: 58 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts	Were any artillery lugers made like this? Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm not very knowledeable about artillery models. My local gunshop got in a number of lugers (I have my name on a 1936 S/42 in really nice condition.). Among the lugers is an DWM artillery model. I don't recall the year, but I think it was 1916 or 1917. Barrel and all parts are numbered and match, but the typical long range adjustable rear sight is not there, and the sight slot is filled in with an original looking filler (Nicely machined and fitted.). The actual rear sight is on the back of the toggle, like a standard P08, but is noticeably higher than that found on a 4" barreled gun. The toggle is numbered to the frame in the usual two places and the stampings look original, exact same style numbers and size as should be. Were any artillery lugers originally made in this configuration without the long range adjustable rear sight, and a toggle mounted sight instead? Thanks for any help enlightening an artillery ignorant luger fan!

05-25-2004, 03:53 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Sorry JD, This gun has been modified. The rear sight should be on the barrel and the rear sight on the toggle is somebody's way of making this gun shootable after removing and selling the rear sight. No Artillery model lugers were made by the factory in this condition. It would take about $300 in parts to return this to "artillery" condition, but it would still be a mixed parts gun... just a shooter. No collector value. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-26-2004, 11:12 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	JD, I too have seen this configuration before a time or two. I would guess that this was a Stoeger or Pacific Arms modification during the 20s or 30s, to some customer's request, or lack of correct LPO8 rear sights. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-26-2004, 12:13 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Please try to post good sharp photos of the rear toggle/sight and the "filler" that is installed in the artillery rear sight dovetail as soon as you can... thanks, __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-26-2004, 10:45 AM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	JD, you mention that the rear sight is higher than that on a normal P08. Is the rear sight, perhaps, adjustable? Is the barrel length 8" or a bit shorter?

05-26-2004, 12:08 PM	#5
JD User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Western Washington Posts: 107 Thanks: 58 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts	George, No, the rear sight is not adjustable. It looks exactly like a stock 4" barreled P08 sight, only higher. Thanks to all for their imput. I greatly appreciate all the help I can get!!!!

05-27-2004, 12:46 AM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	JD, as John said, it would still be a shooter no matter what you did to it. Stick with your 1936 S/42. You have a prize there so treat it good. Have a little patience and a real artillery, or maybe even a navy, will pop up for you some day when you least expect it. Big Norm

06-01-2004, 05:21 PM	#8
JD User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Western Washington Posts: 107 Thanks: 58 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts	I have taken some photos of the artilery luger and it's sights. I hope this works: <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil4.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jdartil4.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> The filler for standard artillery rear sight slot actually fits much tighter than the photos indicate. I didn't disassemble the gun to see if the rear sight was dovetailed into the toggle or not. The work appears to have been done quite some time ago. Workmanship on the alteration is quite good, but still too bad they spoiled a perfectly good artillery. Hope these are of interest. JD

06-01-2004, 06:01 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	JD, what was done to the LP08 is a real shame as it is a relatively scarce date. If the filler can be tapped out and the added(?) rear sight machined off, you can hide and watch and wait for an LP08 rear sight to show up in the marketplace. The rear sight is going to cost at least a hundred bucks so figure from there and add the gunsmithing costs as well to the cost of the gun. An all original 1917 dated LP08 will cost you about $1200-$2000 depending on the market area and your luck. There is one on Gunbroker.com now that is getting auction weary and can probably be had for less than a grand; maybe $650-$700 as they have previously turned down a high bid of $600. The pistol is listed by a fellow in Texas and seems to be devoid of original finish. Good hunting.

06-01-2004, 07:20 PM	#10
JD User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Western Washington Posts: 107 Thanks: 58 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts	George and Rick, I'm not really interested in this artillery, but I did get a really nice condition (95%) 1936 dated S/42 that was in the same batch that my favorite dealer got in (The S/42 has a pristine bore, and is a beautiful example, and one I could afford.). Someday I would love to get an artillery (or several), but I tend like guns that are in very good condition, and artilleries in very good condition are usually out of my price range....... Someday, though. This artillery has more finish wear than the photos show, and the bore is somewhat rough. It might make a good shooter for someone though. JD