$ 65,000 HK Luger...

Pete Ebbink · 05-08-2004, 08:00 PM

...for sale... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5724987

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

lugerholsterrepair · 05-08-2004, 10:12 PM

I don't know what you HK experts think but I think this is a pretty nice finish on this pistol. I can't detect any machine marks on places you would expect them to be? I didn't know they were finishing HK pistols this nice this late in the War. Jerry Burney

Doubs · 05-08-2004, 10:20 PM

The date "1945" is mis-aligned as the "9" and the "5" do not align with the bottoms of the "1" and the "4". I'm no HK expert by any stretch of the imagination but the number alignment doesn't show the same attention to quality as the finish. Not that I have to worry about it. It's a few dollars out of MY reach!

Navy · 05-08-2004, 10:32 PM

All,

I compared the pictures against several of the Khoffs I have acquired and there is one point of irregularity, and it may be simply my eyes, but on all my kriegies, including two that are vet bringbacks, the SN is never nice and neatly alligned. The first digit or two are always a mite off kilter, like they were added to insert a serial number into a production run. I note that the SN on this gun appears to be a perfect alignment.

I also note that the price is indicative of the fact that the owner will go to his grave owning this piece.

Tom A.

John D. · 05-08-2004, 11:45 PM

Hi Guys,

A couple of my views on this HK (I have not seen this in person),

The Chamber date baseline is correct, as is the serialization. However - there is something that bothers me in the numerals - which I'd have to remove the laquer to decide.

The blueing/finish is correct - but, there is another tell-tale I can't see in the photos whether it's present or not?

I would suggest - that the buyer or the seller has this one verified.

As for the price? Hmmm - I know what the last 1945 sold for recently. But - any seller can ask any price they want..??? But - $65,000? Yikers!!!!

I'm lovin' these auctions and how they effect the value of my HK collection..!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 05-08-2004, 11:54 PM

Hello John D.,

Is it typical for the late-date HK to have the stamping of "Krieghoff" running to both edges of the top of the front toggle link...???

p.s. I was thinking the seller had a typo in his/her ad...would $ 6500 be a good opening bid for this piece...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John D. · 05-09-2004, 11:21 AM

Hi Pete,

Sorry for the delayed reply!

Yep - it looks like what Gibson would call a C-4 - note the right anchor hook and where it touches the "K" and the lighter areas of the die itself. Also - depending on how the link was polished - the KRIEGHOFF may/can touch edge-to-edge as you note. I'd also be really interested to see the entire toggle train off this Luger, to see what proofs-marks it may or may not have...

Honestly - I don't think that there is a typo on the price. See - $6,500 would be as out of line as $65,000 based on what verified 1945s have sold for in the past 3-4 years. Again, the key to this is having this one verified so that a market price could be established. Again, I don't know if this seller has had this done - but in looking at their other auctions, they appear to be be a reputible "general gun" dealer, but I didn't notice any other auctions of theirs dealing with highly-prized collectible firearms.???

drbuster · 05-09-2004, 04:29 PM

Pages 182-183 of Gibson's book confirm the serial number range and the top photo shows the "Krieghoff" lettering going to the edge of the toggle. Gibson states that the 1945 date is the hardest to find of the military production pieces. What about the 1939 dated specimens? That was wartime also. I agree with John D. that the decimal point must be in the wrong place ($6.5K and not $65K). After all guys, it doesn't even have a matching magazine!

Frank H · 05-10-2004, 04:46 PM

I asked him, and $65k is correct.

Navy · 05-10-2004, 06:46 PM

He will die with that before getting anything close to $65K

Tom A.

John D. · 05-10-2004, 06:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tom A:
He will die with that before getting anything close to $65K.....<hr /></blockquote>Well - in a very selfish way (my "net worth" increasing as my collection value increases <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) - I hope he gets his $65K - or more!!!..!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

Big Norm · 05-11-2004, 05:24 AM

Ykkes!! And I thought that the RIA prices were high. Double Ykkes!! To think that I passed on a 1945 HK for $5,000 last year. (I only had $4999.95 on me at the time). I should not have bought that last ice cream at the gun show.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 05-14-2004, 12:22 PM

Has anyone looked closely at the Grips on this Luger?

It may be the photographs, but the grips appear to me to be some of the reproduction "black widow" variety... Does anyone agree? Can anyone tell from the photos that these grips are HK in origin?

I would ask that the seller clearly photograph the inside of the grips, that would tell the story...

And as for $65,000? ... I think this guy has lost his marbles.

Aaron · 05-14-2004, 06:45 PM

I also know nothing about KH pistols, but I agree with John that the coarsely checkered grips look exactly like the postwar examples found on reworked pistols. What gives?

05-08-2004, 08:00 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	$ 65,000 HK Luger... ...for sale... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5724987 Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

05-08-2004, 10:12 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,928 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I don't know what you HK experts think but I think this is a pretty nice finish on this pistol. I can't detect any machine marks on places you would expect them to be? I didn't know they were finishing HK pistols this nice this late in the War. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-10-2004, 06:58 PM	#11
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A: <strong>He will die with that before getting anything close to $65K.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well - in a very selfish way (my "net worth" increasing as my collection value increases <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) - I hope he gets his $65K - or more!!!..!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

05-14-2004, 12:22 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Has anyone looked closely at the Grips on this Luger? It may be the photographs, but the grips appear to me to be some of the reproduction "black widow" variety... Does anyone agree? Can anyone tell from the photos that these grips are HK in origin? I would ask that the seller clearly photograph the inside of the grips, that would tell the story... And as for $65,000? ... I think this guy has lost his marbles. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-08-2004, 10:20 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,696 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts	The date "1945" is mis-aligned as the "9" and the "5" do not align with the bottoms of the "1" and the "4". I'm no HK expert by any stretch of the imagination but the number alignment doesn't show the same attention to quality as the finish. Not that I have to worry about it. It's a few dollars out of MY reach!

05-08-2004, 10:32 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, I compared the pictures against several of the Khoffs I have acquired and there is one point of irregularity, and it may be simply my eyes, but on all my kriegies, including two that are vet bringbacks, the SN is never nice and neatly alligned. The first digit or two are always a mite off kilter, like they were added to insert a serial number into a production run. I note that the SN on this gun appears to be a perfect alignment. I also note that the price is indicative of the fact that the owner will go to his grave owning this piece. Tom A.

05-08-2004, 11:45 PM	#5
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hi Guys, A couple of my views on this HK (I have not seen this in person), The Chamber date baseline is correct, as is the serialization. However - there is something that bothers me in the numerals - which I'd have to remove the laquer to decide. The blueing/finish is correct - but, there is another tell-tale I can't see in the photos whether it's present or not? I would suggest - that the buyer or the seller has this one verified. As for the price? Hmmm - I know what the last 1945 sold for recently. But - any seller can ask any price they want..??? But - $65,000? Yikers!!!! I'm lovin' these auctions and how they effect the value of my HK collection..!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

05-08-2004, 11:54 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello John D., Is it typical for the late-date HK to have the stamping of "Krieghoff" running to both edges of the top of the front toggle link...??? p.s. I was thinking the seller had a typo in his/her ad...would $ 6500 be a good opening bid for this piece...??? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

05-09-2004, 11:21 AM	#7
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hi Pete, Sorry for the delayed reply! Yep - it looks like what Gibson would call a C-4 - note the right anchor hook and where it touches the "K" and the lighter areas of the die itself. Also - depending on how the link was polished - the KRIEGHOFF may/can touch edge-to-edge as you note. I'd also be really interested to see the entire toggle train off this Luger, to see what proofs-marks it may or may not have... Honestly - I don't think that there is a typo on the price. See - $6,500 would be as out of line as $65,000 based on what verified 1945s have sold for in the past 3-4 years. Again, the key to this is having this one verified so that a market price could be established. Again, I don't know if this seller has had this done - but in looking at their other auctions, they appear to be be a reputible "general gun" dealer, but I didn't notice any other auctions of theirs dealing with highly-prized collectible firearms.???

05-09-2004, 04:29 PM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Pages 182-183 of Gibson's book confirm the serial number range and the top photo shows the "Krieghoff" lettering going to the edge of the toggle. Gibson states that the 1945 date is the hardest to find of the military production pieces. What about the 1939 dated specimens? That was wartime also. I agree with John D. that the decimal point must be in the wrong place ($6.5K and not $65K). After all guys, it doesn't even have a matching magazine!

05-10-2004, 04:46 PM	#9
Frank H User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: N. FL Posts: 90 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I asked him, and $65k is correct.

05-10-2004, 06:46 PM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	He will die with that before getting anything close to $65K Tom A.

05-11-2004, 05:24 AM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ykkes!! And I thought that the RIA prices were high. Double Ykkes!! To think that I passed on a 1945 HK for $5,000 last year. (I only had $4999.95 on me at the time). I should not have bought that last ice cream at the gun show. Big Norm

05-14-2004, 06:45 PM	#14
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I also know nothing about KH pistols, but I agree with John that the coarsely checkered grips look exactly like the postwar examples found on reworked pistols. What gives?