1918 DWM

raimo · 08-28-2003, 06:59 PM

Hi all,
I'm new to lugers and would like to get an idea of the value of a 1918 DWM. There are no numbers on any parts other than a matched number below the rear sight, serial number at bottom of barrel, serial number and Germany on front of receiver, a crown with letter N below on left side of receiver and SAFE under the safety. Appears to have original bluing and straw trigger. Wood grips and wood magazine bottom appear to be in excellent shape (no match numbers). Hardly any wear on this gun. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Raimo

Doubs · 08-29-2003, 12:07 AM

Raimo, close-up pictures of the pistol from all angles would be nice. It sounds like a re-worked military issue pistol from the post-war period when many commercial Lugers were made from former military guns by changing the barrel from a 100mm 9mm to a 98mm 7.65mm. Some had the date "scrubbed" (removed) and "Germany" stamped on the front of the frame or the right side of the receiver or elsewhere. Your pistol, however, is unusual in that it has a commercial proof on a military receiver and the English word "SAFE"..... something of an oddity.

Please tell us more about the pistol. Are the serial numbers all matching? Is the caliber 9mm or 7.65mm (.30 cal.)? Give us as many details as possible and pictures too, if you can.

The post-WW1 rework Lugers are very common but if in nice condition can still bring a fair price. It all depends upon the details and condition.

Lugerdoc · 08-29-2003, 08:43 AM

Doubs & Raimo, I don't find the above discription odd if the luger is a "23" (actually 1919 production according to Still) in the five digit 89500-96000 serial range. Many of these were "Safe" marked with "Loaded" marked extractors for the American market. See "Lugers at Random" page 202. TH

Doubs · 08-29-2003, 11:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lugerdoc:
Doubs & Raimo, I don't find the above discription odd if the luger is a "23" (actually 1919 production according to Still) in the five digit 89500-96000 serial range. Many of these were "Safe" marked with "Loaded" marked extractors for the American market. See "Lugers at Random" page 202. TH<hr /></blockquote>Tom, while every conceivable combination of parts and markings seem to have come out of Germany in the early 1920's, the 1918 military receiver with commercial proofs mounted on a frame with "SAFE" still seems a little odd to me. But, until Raimo gives us more information, including the serial number, I'm speculating. Hopefully he'll provide us with more to go on. It sounds like an interesting piece.

raimo · 09-09-2003, 07:47 PM

Thanks to Lugerdoc and Doubs for the info so far. This gun is numbered 91326 on the bottom of the barrel and the front of the receiver. Only match number (26) found on rear below rear sight; (The gun has not been taken apart) . The 9mm barrel is 3.75" long. I have uploaded photos D3465, D3469, D3472, D3512, D3513 and D 3514 to the rennlist; hope it's done correctly and they are accessible.

raimo · 09-09-2003, 08:12 PM

Looked around a bit and I hope these links work for the 1918 DWM.
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3465.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3465.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3469.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3469.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3472.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3472.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3512.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3512.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3513.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3513.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3514.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3514.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

ADMIN: The .jpg should have been .JPG

and I thumbed them, just click on them if you'd like to see them bigger. Ed

Doubs · 09-10-2003, 01:27 AM

Raimo, you have what may be one of the last five digit commercial Lugers made as the changeover to the "Alphabet" Lugers was made somewhere close to 92,000 according to Jan Still in "Weimar Lugers". While there is no picture of the top of the pistol, the one picture that shows part of the chamber doesn't show a date that I can see. Does it actually say 1918 as you indicate or was that simply a guess? Also, the bore sure seems small for a 9mm. Are you positive it's in 9mm and not a 7.65mm (.30 caliber)?

Look on the underside of the locking bolt and sideplate just above the trigger and you'll see the number "26" on both parts..... typical for a commercial Luger.

It appears to me that you have a nice example of a post-WW1 commercial Luger of the five digit serial number variety. They are nicely made pistols and should be great shooters. Your pistol, however, may be too nice to use as a shooter.... from what I can see.

raimo · 09-10-2003, 01:07 PM

Thanks Ed for fixing the photos.

Doubs, registration of this Luger gives a 1918 date and a 9mm bore. I measured the bore as being around 9mm (11/32") diameter. What diameter is an actual 9mm bore? There is no date that I can find on the exterior of the gun.

Ron Wood · 09-10-2003, 04:15 PM

raimo,
It looks like you measured the bore from groove to groove. If you measure it from land to land, you will come up with the actual caliber. Your Luger is as Doubs described, one of the last 5 digit commercial Lugers and it is a 7.65mm caliber. The registration for the Luger is incorrect. It is not a 1918, but a post WWI commercial in very nice condition. In additon to the "SAFE" marking, the extractor should be marked "LOADED". This is not a super rare variation, but it is uncommon and is definately a collectable and not a shooter, particularly in this condition.

raimo · 09-16-2003, 01:07 PM

Thanks for all the info. Would anybody have an idea of the value of this Luger as it will most likely be sold.

Edward Tinker · 09-16-2003, 02:19 PM

Raimo, your profile doesn't show your location, and that makes a big difference.

A shooter value luger (and as Ron says, yours doesn't appear to be), goes for about $400-$550

A collectable gun probably double that, but I will let someone like Ron answer that question.

Ed

08-28-2003, 06:59 PM	#1
raimo User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Timmins, Ontario Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1918 DWM Hi all, I'm new to lugers and would like to get an idea of the value of a 1918 DWM. There are no numbers on any parts other than a matched number below the rear sight, serial number at bottom of barrel, serial number and Germany on front of receiver, a crown with letter N below on left side of receiver and SAFE under the safety. Appears to have original bluing and straw trigger. Wood grips and wood magazine bottom appear to be in excellent shape (no match numbers). Hardly any wear on this gun. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Raimo

08-29-2003, 08:43 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Doubs & Raimo, I don't find the above discription odd if the luger is a "23" (actually 1919 production according to Still) in the five digit 89500-96000 serial range. Many of these were "Safe" marked with "Loaded" marked extractors for the American market. See "Lugers at Random" page 202. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-29-2003, 11:04 AM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lugerdoc: <strong>Doubs & Raimo, I don't find the above discription odd if the luger is a "23" (actually 1919 production according to Still) in the five digit 89500-96000 serial range. Many of these were "Safe" marked with "Loaded" marked extractors for the American market. See "Lugers at Random" page 202. TH</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Tom, while every conceivable combination of parts and markings seem to have come out of Germany in the early 1920's, the 1918 military receiver with commercial proofs mounted on a frame with "SAFE" still seems a little odd to me. But, until Raimo gives us more information, including the serial number, I'm speculating. Hopefully he'll provide us with more to go on. It sounds like an interesting piece.

09-10-2003, 04:15 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	raimo, It looks like you measured the bore from groove to groove. If you measure it from land to land, you will come up with the actual caliber. Your Luger is as Doubs described, one of the last 5 digit commercial Lugers and it is a 7.65mm caliber. The registration for the Luger is incorrect. It is not a 1918, but a post WWI commercial in very nice condition. In additon to the "SAFE" marking, the extractor should be marked "LOADED". This is not a super rare variation, but it is uncommon and is definately a collectable and not a shooter, particularly in this condition. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-16-2003, 02:19 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Raimo, your profile doesn't show your location, and that makes a big difference. A shooter value luger (and as Ron says, yours doesn't appear to be), goes for about $400-$550 A collectable gun probably double that, but I will let someone like Ron answer that question. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-29-2003, 12:07 AM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	Raimo, close-up pictures of the pistol from all angles would be nice. It sounds like a re-worked military issue pistol from the post-war period when many commercial Lugers were made from former military guns by changing the barrel from a 100mm 9mm to a 98mm 7.65mm. Some had the date "scrubbed" (removed) and "Germany" stamped on the front of the frame or the right side of the receiver or elsewhere. Your pistol, however, is unusual in that it has a commercial proof on a military receiver and the English word "SAFE"..... something of an oddity. Please tell us more about the pistol. Are the serial numbers all matching? Is the caliber 9mm or 7.65mm (.30 cal.)? Give us as many details as possible and pictures too, if you can. The post-WW1 rework Lugers are very common but if in nice condition can still bring a fair price. It all depends upon the details and condition.

09-09-2003, 07:47 PM	#5
raimo User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Timmins, Ontario Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to Lugerdoc and Doubs for the info so far. This gun is numbered 91326 on the bottom of the barrel and the front of the receiver. Only match number (26) found on rear below rear sight; (The gun has not been taken apart) . The 9mm barrel is 3.75" long. I have uploaded photos D3465, D3469, D3472, D3512, D3513 and D 3514 to the rennlist; hope it's done correctly and they are accessible.

09-09-2003, 08:12 PM	#6
raimo User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Timmins, Ontario Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looked around a bit and I hope these links work for the 1918 DWM. <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3465.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3465.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3469.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3469.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3472.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3472.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3512.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3512.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3513.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3513.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3514.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/D3514.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> ADMIN: The .jpg should have been .JPG and I thumbed them, just click on them if you'd like to see them bigger. Ed

09-10-2003, 01:27 AM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	Raimo, you have what may be one of the last five digit commercial Lugers made as the changeover to the "Alphabet" Lugers was made somewhere close to 92,000 according to Jan Still in "Weimar Lugers". While there is no picture of the top of the pistol, the one picture that shows part of the chamber doesn't show a date that I can see. Does it actually say 1918 as you indicate or was that simply a guess? Also, the bore sure seems small for a 9mm. Are you positive it's in 9mm and not a 7.65mm (.30 caliber)? Look on the underside of the locking bolt and sideplate just above the trigger and you'll see the number "26" on both parts..... typical for a commercial Luger. It appears to me that you have a nice example of a post-WW1 commercial Luger of the five digit serial number variety. They are nicely made pistols and should be great shooters. Your pistol, however, may be too nice to use as a shooter.... from what I can see.

09-10-2003, 01:07 PM	#8
raimo User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Timmins, Ontario Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed for fixing the photos. Doubs, registration of this Luger gives a 1918 date and a 9mm bore. I measured the bore as being around 9mm (11/32") diameter. What diameter is an actual 9mm bore? There is no date that I can find on the exterior of the gun.

09-16-2003, 01:07 PM	#10
raimo User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Timmins, Ontario Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the info. Would anybody have an idea of the value of this Luger as it will most likely be sold.