Interesting Swiss grip safety 9mm "commercial"

[spacecoast]

I don't see many of these advertised, would appreciate any discussion/validation of the post-WWI production statement.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/908687455

[mrerick]

Switzerland had standardized on the .30 Luger round, and was producing their own pistols from DWM supplied parts and under license by the end of WW-I.

Some were made in 9mm and from surplus WW-I parts. From Bobba:

"A certain number of these pistols in cal. 9mm Parabellum are also known. Some of these actually were not born this calibre, but were later modified in the USA; strictly according to the terms, these should not even be considered as a modifications derived from a "Swiss" variation, but simply a "hors-ligne" assembling."

Many had Aberchrombie and Fitch of New York markings. Serial numbers were in the 2000 to 3500 range. with "i" suffix letter like other Alphabet DWM Commercials.

Apparently Ralph Shattuck dabbled in barrel replacements of some of these, with "Made in Switzerland" rolled on the barrels.

Best guess is that this was a .30 Luger DWM commercial that arrived in Switzerland with a 100mm barrel, and that the barrel was switched out to 9mm after arriving in the USA at some point. It's speculation, but follows along Bobba's research.

[Ron Wood]

I think Marc pretty well summed it up.
Ron

[Doubs]

The "lazy" crown/N commercial proof indicates pre-WW1 production. It is known that DWM put the "cross-in-sunburst" over the receiver of guns made for commercial sales in Switzerland and some were sold in 9mm. The receiver and barrel both carry the small Swiss cross proof mark. The barrel may be original but if it was replaced, it was likely done in Switzerland as the cross would indicate.

The Lugers sold by Abercrombie & Fitch were ordered from Switzerland and delivered in 1922. DWM sent 100 sets to Switzerland without barrels because Germany was forbidden to make long barrels. The Swiss used both 120mm W+F and Hammerli manufactured barrels to complete the order and the guns were then shipped to the US. More information is available in Gortz & Sturgess (red books) beginning on page 609.

The subject pistol is clearly pre-war.

[Dwight Gruber]

This pistol is a standard New Model Parabellum. The lazy c/N proofs place its manufacture in 1912-1913. Several features cause this pistol to be suspect. Swiss preference was for long-frame pistols; this has sort frame.


The small Swiss crosses which appear on the pistol appear to be fake, they are "sharper" than the authentic stamp. SPECULATION that they have been applied to justify/proof Swiss replacement of the barrel.This barrel does not have the front sight characteristic of Swiss preference. In any case, the small Swiss cross on a replacement barrel indicates Swiss military acceptance, and is found on the left side of the barrel, not underneath.


The four-digit serial number makes no sense. It does appear that a first digit has been either disguised or removed.


The Swiss cross-in-sunburst on the frame looks odd. Nothing diagnostic can be said about it without better pictures and removal of the whitening.


The post-war production statement is an ignorant reduction of Kenyon's comments (actually p.192), which themselves are a conflation of several different circumstances. Kenyon's comments, here as in many other places, have been made obsolete.


--Dwight

[spangy]

I wonder how much the 'million dollar chip' glued back on will add to the price ??

[gunnertwo]

Here's some pics of my commercial marketed for Swiss sales. Model 1906 with Swiss Cross in Sunburst, polished safety in 7.65 cal. From what I've researched it's a fairly early gun from the change in serialization.

G2

[Dwight Gruber]

Greg,


Thanks for posting this. Your pistol is n al0phabet Commercial i suffix pistol, made in 1921. These are fairly uncommon pistols. Note particularly the long frame and the "heavy" looking, unbeveled left frame rail/ compare these to the short frame, beveled frame rail of the pistol under discussion. These are characteristic of pre-war manufacture.


--Dwight

[biffj]

This is very interesting. I just picked up one of these in the 22XX i serial range not previously knowing where they came from. Since buying it I've come across a number of others all in the same 2000i to 4000i serial range. Simpsons has or had about 3 of them on their website.

Characteristics are really similar between them other than the location and layout of the crown N proofs. Mine is found on the barrel above the serial number aligned with the bore, on the frame above the takedown lever vertically and on the front toggle link left side laying down with the crown to the front. It also has the white under the safety lever and the cross and shield over the chamber. Mine has the Germany stamp vertically on the rear of the frame. I've seen it under the serial number up front, on the left side of the frame and on the right side as well. Seems to be no standard place for it.

I've not seen under the grips of the others buy mine still has the old style mainspring area with the notch at the bottom where the frame hadn't been milled out completely as they did later. If the bridge for the mainspring lever weren't there I could run an old flat mainspring...it is a long frame with the grip safety.

I originally bought it thinking it would be a good shooter. Bore is really near perfect and condition is excellent all around. Maybe I should shoot my more worn private series 06/29 instead.

Frank

[Mac Cat]

The OP's link to GunBoards is long gone and I couldn't find the pistol.
I think we all have learned that we should post photos here, rather than links to other websites for just this reason.

BTW, Frank
I have 2049i, which has the same characteristics.
Mine is stamped GERMANY on the front frame.

[biffj]

Here are a few pictures.

Frank

[HerrKaiser]

Seems to be in excellent condition too.

[biffj]

It is quite beautiful and much better than I thought from the pictures I saw before buying it. For a post war gun its outstanding and I'm very pleased. The bore is near perfect too. My only complaint is that the mag spring is too weak to make the hold open work. I tried a couple of my 06/29 mags and one works well while the other is hit or miss on the hold open. Same issue, one has a weak spring and the other doesn't. I'll take it though.

Frank

[rhuff]

GT purchased a number of special mag springs some time back and can change out your old spring for a new one, or just purchase 1-2 Mec-Gar mags. Just a thought.