1938 S/42 refinished shooter

[Teddydog]

EDIT: Reviving my old 2013 thread with new pics and the "original" Russian grips installed

I bought this Luger several years ago for a good price ($300 I think) and always "assumed" it was either a Russian capture gun or East German police use gun. I'd like to get whatever information you folks can help me with. to maybe clarify this.

It came to me with black plastic grips with vertical grooves. I have put on a set of replacement wood (they need some oil to darken them!). SN is 8607i. The gun clearly has been refinished with a dark, matte blue (as seen with the Russian guns). The "fire" legend is, of course, no longer white. It doesn't have any pitting under the finish that I can find. Only one numbered part doesn't match: the side plate. The toggle axle pin number cannot be read as it looks like maybe someone was banging on it trying to drive it out the wrong way! Everything else is good to go. Bore has a little bit of roughness in the grooves, but strong rifling.

It came with one aluminum base magazine that is not serialed. It has one Waffenampt mark and what looks like a "+" sign on it. Is this a field replacement magazine?

The import stamp (C.A.I.) indicates Germany as the point of origin.

I don't see any "extra" stamps on it, though. I have read that the East German guns were given new inspection and proof stamps after their reworks. And I thought most Russian guns have "X"s and often overstamping or peen marks on the original German/Nazi proofs.

I have fired it and it worked great. I intend to shoot it more. What is a good source for another "shooting" magazine? If I'm going to shoot it, should I buy a new firing pin to use to prevent breakage in the original? Any other parts that should be replaced during shooting?

Thanks for any and all thoughts. Oh...the pics will be coming shortly. Darn 1and1.com isn't working this morning to allow me to upload to my website.

Rob

[DavidJayUden]

CAI= Century Arms International.
The plus mark probably indicates a spare magazine status.
Seems like not all Russian guns were X'ed out, but the matt finish and grips do sound at least like VOPO, East German Police.
Sounds like a wonderful shooter and personally I'd not worry about replacing numbered parts prior to discharge.
Mec Gar makes a good functional shooting magazine, but at the moment I can't tell you where to get one. Do a web search or post here in the WANTED section.
Ya done good on the price, as it should be worth in the neighborhood of $750 as a shooter.
dju

[Teddydog]

Here are some pics. I don't have the original grips handy to photograph, but IIRC they did not have the "bullseye" imprint usually seen on VOPO grips.









I don't see any unusual stamps or markings...just the normal acceptance stamps (1st two with small eagle over 63, then a slightly larger "droop eagle" with no number).

The magazine, upon closer inspection, may have had a serial number ground or sanded off. It does have a bit of a flat spot on the very bottom. The the + sign and an eagle over 83 Waffenampt. No other marking visible on the magazine.

rob

[phatrick88]

Originally Posted by Teddydog

I don't see any "extra" stamps on it, though. I have read that the East German guns were given new inspection and proof stamps after their reworks. And I thought most Russian guns have "X"s and often overstamping or peen marks on the original German/Nazi proofs.

Guns reworked and issued to the East German Police/Army were indeed stamped with their own Crown/N and "Star Burst" proofs. Many were simply reworked and put into storage for a later date hence the sole X without any VoPo markings. As far as peening.. doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to why some kept their original markings and others don't, although it seems most coming from eastern block countries such as Yugoslavia have their German markings removed as standard.

Originally Posted by Teddydog

It came with one aluminum base magazine that is not serialed. It has one Waffenampt mark and what looks like a "+" sign on it. Is this a field replacement magazine?

I have a '38 dated Luger that is a Russian Capture. It is all matching, crossed cannons (X) and black Russian dip. What's interesting is the mag that came with my gun has all the same traits as yours: "+" sign and E/63 with the serial numbers ground. I'll throw up a quick picture of my mag bottom for reference.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Teddydog

Oh...the pics will be coming shortly. Darn 1and1.com isn't working this morning to allow me to upload to my website.

You can attach pics directly to this thread. "Go Advanced" or "Manage Attachments" below the post window. If you get an error message, it means you need to post a couple more times to satisfy Forum requirements.

The vertical-grooved black Bakelite grips are Russian and are fairly rare; took me several months to find a set. Don't throw them out or let them go cheaply!

[Teddydog]

Originally Posted by phatrick88

I have a '38 dated Luger that is a Russian Capture. It is all matching, crossed cannons (X) and black Russian dip. What's interesting is the mag that came with my gun has all the same traits as yours: "+" sign and E/63 with the serial numbers ground. I'll throw up a quick picture of my mag bottom for reference.

Yes! That is almost exactly what my mag base looks like, right down to the partial figure above the + (I guess that's the letter part of the original serial number).

Originally Posted by postino

You can attach pics directly to this thread. "Go Advanced" or "Manage Attachments" below the post window. If you get an error message, it means you need to post a couple more times to satisfy Forum requirements.

The vertical-grooved black Bakelite grips are Russian and are fairly rare; took me several months to find a set. Don't throw them out or let them go cheaply!

The pictures are up in my 2nd post. Do you not see them? Thanks for the info about the grips. I assumed they were common on the Russian guns. I have them here somewhere and would never throw them out.

Thanks guys. Great info so far.

Rob

[Sergio Natali]

To me it seems to come from some nation of the Eastern Block, the figure written on the trigger plate reminds me of the ones writter (by electric pen, at least it's what we call it here) on Mausers K98K. In any case for 300 USD one cannot really expect much, and it's probably a good shooter.

[jonnyc]

The grips are Russian, and I actually prefer them on my "shooter" Luger.
I have a spare DDR mag. If you need one check the WTS Forum.

[Teddydog]

I am intentionally reviving this old thread of mine. I have been thinking about German guns lately, including the Luger (and the Walthers I have purchased recently). That got me thinking about the one Luger I have currently, which I posted about here in 2013!

I have put the Russian grips back onto the pistol and taken some new photos (which I THINK are better than the old ones!).







The mag that came with the gun is inserted. It is a blued-body, aluminum base one with the serial number ground off and just the "Eagle/63" and the "+" visible, and the series code partially present (maybe "h" or "b").

I don't think there is anything left to add about this Luger. Looks like a Russian capture with Russian replacement grips. No "X" or peened/defaced inspector marks. Decent bore. Replaced side plate with "electro matching."

I also have this "random" mag which seems to be low quality. Is this a low quality "official" mag of some type, or just a cheap aftermarket one? No markings. Blue steel. Crude spot-welds on the ribs (both sides). Two roll pins holding in the black plastic base.





Rob

[ithacaartist]

Yep, it's an aftermarket. The spot welds and double, rolled pins to hold the bottom are the tells. Original or good quality mags are folded and staked at the top. The shape of the latter will vary with manufacturer. Original mags up until the end of WWII have a single, solid retaining pin.

FXO mags from the end of the war are forged and machined, with aluminum or Bakelite bottoms that are retained very differently.