Alphabety Commercial

[Deputywood]

I have searched and researched and still have a question or two concerning this Alphabet PO8. The serial number is 7143k. It is proofed on the frame, bottom of the barrel, and middle left side of toggle. The last two digits of the serial number are on the take down lever, trigger, rear toggle, bottem of the side plate, and the breech block. Germany is stamped on the frame between the serial number and the suffix letter. It is also stamped on the bottem of the magazine. The inside of the grips are not marked in any way. It is chambered in .30 Luger.

1. Are any other parts numbered with last digits of the serial number?
2. Were the Commercial wood bottom mags numbered to the weapon?
3, What else am I missing?

4. Is this considered a "full matching luger?"

Woody

[Deputywood]

Here some more pictures of the small parts.

[mrerick]

The variant of Luger you have is called a DWM Alphabet Commercial, with many made for export during the Weimar Era. Your Luger was likely made in 1922.

These are numbered in the commercial way, with fewer parts marked and in less visible places.

IIRC, our Luger FAQ document discusses this. It's free to download from the site. Just follow the FAQ link at the top of each forum page.

If the numbers are the same as the last digits of your Luger serial number, it's considered matching. The magazines are normally not numbered on these commercial pistols, and should be wood bottom plated tin.

I don't recall the inside of the grips being numbered on mine either. I have one in the "m" block.

[Deputywood]

Thank you for the reply. I have the FAQ downloaded and have spent many hours perusing it but felt all my questions were not answered. The mag is tinned and is stamped Germany. Didn't show very well in the photo.

Woody

[Yakman]

Woody, You probably already know this, but the pistol is marked GERMANY because of US import laws requiring all foreign produced items, not just guns, imported into the US be marked with the country of origin. The magazine in the gun at time of import and maybe a spare in the box with the gun are not marked as they are component parts of the pistol. The original mags with these commercial Lugers were unmarked wooden bottoms. Magazines imported separately by, say, Stoeger as spare individual mags would in themselves have to be GERMANY marked. Hence, your GERMANY marked mag would have probably been added to your Luger by an owner at a later date. Not unusual to see this. The marked mags do not add or detract from the pistol.


The grips on commercial Lugers such as yours are not normally numbered.

Jack

[Kiwi]

Definitely Blue

[Deputywood]

"Definitely Blue"

I don't understand what you are referring to.

Woody

[Mac Cat]

FYI: Your photos all have a very strong blue tint !?

[Deputywood]

They do that. Overcast sky and the orange towel may be the culprit. I don't claim to be a photographer.

Woody

[Kiwi]

Orange Towel.
The bluing on a gun is one of the quality measurements - guns are described as having xx% original bluing. There are multiple threads on bluing turning a Plum color.
A big turnoff for collectors is if the gun has been re-blued, or the bluing has been touched up.

The orange background will definitely throw the photo color off.

[Deputywood]

I tried a white towel to give you an idea of the true finish condition.

[Yakman]

Woody, It looks like a nice fairly average 1920 commercial luger. (alphabet commercial to the newer guys and more woke older ones) From what you've described it sounds to be all matching. What is it you are wanting to do with it? Buy it? You should be able to get a fair idea of its value on Gunbroker or its top dollar value on Simpson Ltd. If it's history and when it was made, this forum is good for that. Dwight Gruber specializes in commercials so pay attention to anything he says. Sadly, right now, there are no books that spend any time on these post ww1 Lugers. Right now information is piece meal. Dwight is writing a book on Commercial Lugers. When he comes out with it one should expect to see the interest, collectability, and prices go up on these Lugers. I'm looking forward to the book, but at my age I probably will never see it.

Post WW1 is a very interesting era in Luger production. There are a number of rare and unusual variations from that time period. Enough to make for a very interesting collection, and they can be fairly easy to find in 98% or better condition. Right now, in general, they do not command the high prices of some military's. I think Dwight's book will change that.

[Deputywood]

Thanks again for the information Jack. This one came my way at an attractive price. I did pick it up along with five boxes of Fiocchi 30 Luger ammo. I have fired 25 rounds and it functioned perfectly, printing about 2 inches high and right at 25 yards. The bore was heavily copper fouled when I got it and I spent elbow grease removing it. It shows light frosting when clean but grouped about as tight as I can hold these days. The bore did grab copper again after the few rounds I fired, but cleaned easier this time. I think I may keep this one as plinker for a while.

[Doubs]

The designation "Alphabet Commercial" was coined, I believe, by Jan Still as a more accurate designation of the post-WW1 commercial Lugers with a suffix letter in the serial number. Why more accurate? Because they didn't begin production until mid-1921 and thus 1920 is inaccurate.

The reasons they are less popular as a collectable are 1., they were produced in greater numbers than any other variant are are thus the most commonly encountered and 2., the vast majority are in 7.65x21mm (.30 Luger) which isn't as easy or as cheap to find as 9mm. You may also add that as a commercial gun they have little to offer historically.

A few do have collector interest. Among those are the few made in 9mm, those that can be identified as police issue and the M23 Finnish contract military Lugers. Germany was in great need of hard cash so I believe that most of the Alphabet Commercial production was exported.

WRT the "frosted" bore, cleaning it with JB Bore Bright IAW the instructions should reduce the tendency to copper foul. Bore Bright is a polishing compound and will remove all current fouling in the bore and also polish it.

I've owned - still do - a number of Alphabet Commercial Lugers in 30 caliber and without exception they have been reliable and accurate. Below is a reduced size 50 foot target shot at 54 feet with an Alphabet Commercial Luger.

[Yakman]

Doubs, nice shooting and nice Luger. One of the best shooters I ever had was a pre-alphabet 5 digit commercia in 7.65. It wasn't much to look at, but it was accurate.

Jack

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by Yakman

Doubs, nice shooting and nice Luger. One of the best shooters I ever had was a pre-alphabet 5 digit commercia in 7.65. It wasn't much to look at, but it was accurate.

Jack

Thank you. I bought my first Alphabet Commercial from a pawn shop on 1st Avenue in Seattle in 1966 when I was stationed at McChord AFB. I shot it a lot and it was a tack driver. I paid $70 for it.

I've always liked the 30 Luger cartridge. The last 30 I bought is an all matching Swiss P'00/'06 in excellent condition made in 1910. I paid $2,000 for it. I shot one full magazine through it to see how it shot and I hit an 8 inch steel plate at 25 yards all 8 shots. It will remain unfired again for as long as I own it.

[Yakman]

I lived in Seattle for almost ten years in the 1970's. I'm sure I know that pawn shop you refer to. I can't remember the name, but it was very heavily into guns. They had knowledgeable people working here, too.

Jack

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by Yakman

I lived in Seattle for almost ten years in the 1970's. I'm sure I know that pawn shop you refer to. I can't remember the name, but it was very heavily into guns. They had knowledgeable people working here, too.

Jack

Jack, I wish I could recall the name but it's been too long. I later bought a 1916 DWM Luger from a pawn shop in Tacoma. Roughest Luger exterior wise that I ever owned but was 100% reliable and accurate. My wife and I left McChord on 1 June, 1968, for an assignment in KS.

Walker

[mrerick]

My very first Luger was an Alphabet DWM commercial from 1923 or 4 in the "M" block. They are representative of an interesting era in Luger production, and one that kept DWM and the Loewe group factory quite busy after WW-I during a very inflationary era in Germany.

The small parts are not as extensively or visibly marked on these commercial Lugers. I haven't audited your photos, but things appear in order and complete.

Flash photography washes out the rust blued finish, making it difficult to judge for originality. The best photographs are done on a neutral background in shaded natural light with a camera that can focus on detail. Even then, finish can be hard to judge. From what I can make out it looks right.

An aged rust blued finish and the look of small strawed parts have an appearance that is unmistakable when you view enough of them. Also look for the natural halos around stamped serial numbers on the barrel.