Need some help identifying luger I inherited please

Jake · 06-22-2023, 01:47 AM

I know this isn't in the best condition by no means but I just got it after my grandfather passed away, have not done anything besides making sure there wasn't anything in the chamber, took some pictures. He had only a few papers printed from this website, that's what led me here lol. I'd like to know what it is like model, year, anything really. I first seen this pistol about 20 years ago, pretty sure he traded a padlock for it (that's what he collected). He told me that it was a .30 caliber WW1 era German Luger and that he didn't know much about it. Also opinions on having it "restored" for lack of better words? At least to be able to shoot it, maybe. I was given bullets and encouraged to shoot it, but I just don't think firing it or attempting to would be smart so I wasn't going to but my son asked me if we could so yeah. Sorry for so much text and Thanks in advance anyone.

Doubs · 06-22-2023, 02:20 AM

You have what collectors refer to as an alphabet commercial Luger made in the early 1920's, likely 1921 or 1922. The letter suffix that appears on the barrel and frame under the serial number is part of the serial number. I make the suffix letter out to be a k but I'm not 100% certain.

The alphabet commercial Lugers began with the suffix letter i and skipped the letter j because in German the letters i & j are interchangeable. The caliber is almost certainly 30 as your Grandfather said. They are finely made pistols of high quality but are also the most commonly found model Luger and of little interest to collectors unless in pristine condition. OTOH, if it had a nice bore, they are wonderful shooters. Having been owned by your Grandfather, the value to you is priceless... as it should be.

Jake · 06-22-2023, 09:08 AM

Thanks! I'll use my wife's digital microscope and see if I can tell what letter that is for sure.

mrerick · 06-22-2023, 02:41 PM

I can't make out the letters in your photos, but it could well be a "k" or a "b"... Do double check to see if it really is in .30 Luger caliber. Download our FAQ PDF document and check. Follow the FAQ link on every page. If it's a "b" suffix, it's not a Weimar era DWM Alphabet Commercial Luger. It's also numbered in the military numbering pattern, so it could well be an earlier pistol.

It rarely makes any financial sense to refinish or "restore" these. They don't have that much value. Perhaps $1200 to $1500 in this condition. Restored wouldn't increase it's value and would cost you $1000.

We do need better pictures showing details of the markings. Take them with a camera that can focus on detail, in natural light without flash.

Doubs · 06-22-2023, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

It's also numbered in the military numbering pattern, so it could well be an earlier pistol.

I'm not sure why you say it's numbered in the military pattern. I see nothing to suggest that it is.

Below is one of my alphabet commercial Lugers in the m block and it's marked the same as the OP's pistol.

Jake · 06-23-2023, 01:46 PM

I will get some pictures up soon as possible, I don't have a good camera but can probably borrow one, I am trying to get the SD card to work in scope but I am apparently doing something wrong. I don't have any intention on selling it, I will leave this to my son one day so $value doesn't really matter to me, I wouldn't wanna diminish it though if that makes sense, for example my wife collects coins, I've heard her say don't clean them. I didn't know if that was the case with these. Thanks!

Jake · 07-15-2023, 02:21 PM

Sorry for taking so long to get back on here, got to me and I had to put it aside for a bit, my apologies. I have some pictures I'm hoping will look better, still not done with a good camera. Also when I was looking before I saw pictures of the holsters and it looked familiar, well I found it and there was a Browning pistol in it, thought he must have used it cause it fit I don't know. Well then I noticed the markings on the Browning pistol looked a lot like others I've seen on different lugers. Anyways the luger is too long for the holster? I think I got left a puzzle or something lol. Here's some pictures and I apologize the isn't a Luger I know this forum isn't for lugers but it was found in the holster for one and I feel like someone on here will know what it is.

Jake · 07-15-2023, 03:54 PM

I'm still trying to figure out the letter part of serial number on the luger. My local gunshop showed me a page in his blue book with the N and crown and said it was 1950, not sure about that. Also where would the serial number on the magazine be? I don't see any markings on the metal or on the wooden part on the bottom?

gunnertwo · 07-15-2023, 05:20 PM

List of suffix alphabet types attached.

G2

https://www.lugerforum.com/lugermark...xes/suffix.jpg

ithacaartist · 07-15-2023, 10:37 PM

4162k is not in the commercial data base, but it would fall among a group with close serial numbers that are also .30 Luger and likely also Commercial. There is no b block in the data base, so I think the suffix letter is a slightly mis-struck k, with part of its lower "leg" looking like it's there. Somewhere in the FAQ here, or somewhere, is a set of images that show the different variations of the script suffix letters...do a search and you should find it.

The C/N is the ubiquitous marking for Commercial Lugers in general, and the upright C/N is what you'd expect on a Wiemar era commercial. On earlier Commercials, the stamp appeared on its side, the "lazy C/N." It has nothing to do with 1950. No Lugers were made in 1950, either. Everybody loves Lugers, put most are prey to the myriad myths and misconceptions about them that abound, and gunsmiths and dealers are not exceptions to those who believe incorrect things them.

Commercial Lugers' serial numbers started out around zero around 1900 and went into the 90,000s before the style was changed in the early 20s. Military style serial numbering means that the number is no more than four digits plus a suffix letter. This takes up less room/fewer digits to make the serial number than continuing into the 100,000s and beyond. The suffix letters are why they're called "Alphabet Commercials." It would not make it a Military just to be numbered in that style. It would need the typical military proof/acceptance marks on the right, front side of the grip frame, and C/N.

I recommend field stripping the pistol for a good cleaning and lube. YouTube is full of instructional/demonstration videos that will guide you. During this, you can check to see if it needs further disassembly for deeper cleaning, although most Lugers resist developing internal corrosion quite well--a rust-bucket on the outside can more often than not be pristine internally, although under the grips is one of the first places it seems to develop. Your main concern should be to ferret out and address any active, red rust. The finish needs no more than wiping it down with a cloth dampened with the oil of you choice. Avoid contacting the finish with anything abrasive or acidic.

Edward Tinker · 07-15-2023, 11:58 PM

Welcome to the forum - the Crown N was used before WW2 and then after

I'd say this is a 'k'
letters can be very tricky, I've read that a small stamp might last a couple of hundred stampings, even if more, each one was made by hand so I imagine there were variations.
What I find odd, is that there are numbers underneath. It is possible it is a WW1 luger that was reused and sold as a commercial, eother by DWM or most likely a reseller.

Kiwi · 07-16-2023, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

At least to be able to shoot it, maybe. I was given bullets and encouraged to shoot it, but I just don't think firing it or attempting to would be smart so I wasn't going to but my son asked me if we could

During the strip and clean suggested by Ithacaartist above, check very carefully for any cracks - anywhere.

If all looks good shoot ONE ROUND and check for pressure, there are multiple posts about where/how to check for too much pressure both the gun and the fired case.

I do not know the history of your ammo but do not shoot reloads, unless you have loaded them yourself.

PPU works fine in .30 Lugers
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/30-luger

Mac Cat · 07-16-2023, 03:46 PM

Check out the Alphabet luger chart (p 15) from Hallock and Joop's: The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946.

I think the suffix is a "k", too.

tomaustin · 07-16-2023, 10:00 PM

Firing that sucker for the first several rounds requires

you wear heavy gloves

stand behind a protective item, a tree works well....REACH AROUND THE TRUNK

Face shield is recommended

slow fire that weapon.....

And most importantly, have fun.......

gunbugs · 07-17-2023, 01:55 AM

"I do not know the history of your ammo but do not shoot reloads, unless you have loaded them yourself."Kiwi

Now there is some of the best advice in this thread.

06-22-2023, 01:47 AM	#1
Jake User Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Need some help identifying luger I inherited please I know this isn't in the best condition by no means but I just got it after my grandfather passed away, have not done anything besides making sure there wasn't anything in the chamber, took some pictures. He had only a few papers printed from this website, that's what led me here lol. I'd like to know what it is like model, year, anything really. I first seen this pistol about 20 years ago, pretty sure he traded a padlock for it (that's what he collected). He told me that it was a .30 caliber WW1 era German Luger and that he didn't know much about it. Also opinions on having it "restored" for lack of better words? At least to be able to shoot it, maybe. I was given bullets and encouraged to shoot it, but I just don't think firing it or attempting to would be smart so I wasn't going to but my son asked me if we could so yeah. Sorry for so much text and Thanks in advance anyone. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Jake; 06-22-2023 at 01:56 AM. Reason: was wrong about year on paper

06-22-2023, 02:41 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	I can't make out the letters in your photos, but it could well be a "k" or a "b"... Do double check to see if it really is in .30 Luger caliber. Download our FAQ PDF document and check. Follow the FAQ link on every page. If it's a "b" suffix, it's not a Weimar era DWM Alphabet Commercial Luger. It's also numbered in the military numbering pattern, so it could well be an earlier pistol. It rarely makes any financial sense to refinish or "restore" these. They don't have that much value. Perhaps $1200 to $1500 in this condition. Restored wouldn't increase it's value and would cost you $1000. We do need better pictures showing details of the markings. Take them with a camera that can focus on detail, in natural light without flash. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-15-2023, 02:21 PM	#7
Jake User Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	update and another pistol Sorry for taking so long to get back on here, got to me and I had to put it aside for a bit, my apologies. I have some pictures I'm hoping will look better, still not done with a good camera. Also when I was looking before I saw pictures of the holsters and it looked familiar, well I found it and there was a Browning pistol in it, thought he must have used it cause it fit I don't know. Well then I noticed the markings on the Browning pistol looked a lot like others I've seen on different lugers. Anyways the luger is too long for the holster? I think I got left a puzzle or something lol. Here's some pictures and I apologize the isn't a Luger I know this forum isn't for lugers but it was found in the holster for one and I feel like someone on here will know what it is. Attached Thumbnails

07-15-2023, 10:37 PM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,277 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	4162k is not in the commercial data base, but it would fall among a group with close serial numbers that are also .30 Luger and likely also Commercial. There is no b block in the data base, so I think the suffix letter is a slightly mis-struck k, with part of its lower "leg" looking like it's there. Somewhere in the FAQ here, or somewhere, is a set of images that show the different variations of the script suffix letters...do a search and you should find it. The C/N is the ubiquitous marking for Commercial Lugers in general, and the upright C/N is what you'd expect on a Wiemar era commercial. On earlier Commercials, the stamp appeared on its side, the "lazy C/N." It has nothing to do with 1950. No Lugers were made in 1950, either. Everybody loves Lugers, put most are prey to the myriad myths and misconceptions about them that abound, and gunsmiths and dealers are not exceptions to those who believe incorrect things them. Commercial Lugers' serial numbers started out around zero around 1900 and went into the 90,000s before the style was changed in the early 20s. Military style serial numbering means that the number is no more than four digits plus a suffix letter. This takes up less room/fewer digits to make the serial number than continuing into the 100,000s and beyond. The suffix letters are why they're called "Alphabet Commercials." It would not make it a Military just to be numbered in that style. It would need the typical military proof/acceptance marks on the right, front side of the grip frame, and C/N. I recommend field stripping the pistol for a good cleaning and lube. YouTube is full of instructional/demonstration videos that will guide you. During this, you can check to see if it needs further disassembly for deeper cleaning, although most Lugers resist developing internal corrosion quite well--a rust-bucket on the outside can more often than not be pristine internally, although under the grips is one of the first places it seems to develop. Your main concern should be to ferret out and address any active, red rust. The finish needs no more than wiping it down with a cloth dampened with the oil of you choice. Avoid contacting the finish with anything abrasive or acidic. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-15-2023, 11:58 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Welcome to the forum - the Crown N was used before WW2 and then after I'd say this is a 'k' letters can be very tricky, I've read that a small stamp might last a couple of hundred stampings, even if more, each one was made by hand so I imagine there were variations. What I find odd, is that there are numbers underneath. It is possible it is a WW1 luger that was reused and sold as a commercial, eother by DWM or most likely a reseller. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-22-2023, 02:20 AM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,697 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,684 Times in 553 Posts	You have what collectors refer to as an alphabet commercial Luger made in the early 1920's, likely 1921 or 1922. The letter suffix that appears on the barrel and frame under the serial number is part of the serial number. I make the suffix letter out to be a k but I'm not 100% certain. The alphabet commercial Lugers began with the suffix letter i and skipped the letter j because in German the letters i & j are interchangeable. The caliber is almost certainly 30 as your Grandfather said. They are finely made pistols of high quality but are also the most commonly found model Luger and of little interest to collectors unless in pristine condition. OTOH, if it had a nice bore, they are wonderful shooters. Having been owned by your Grandfather, the value to you is priceless... as it should be.

06-22-2023, 09:08 AM	#3
Jake User Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks! I'll use my wife's digital microscope and see if I can tell what letter that is for sure.

06-23-2023, 01:46 PM	#6
Jake User Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I will get some pictures up soon as possible, I don't have a good camera but can probably borrow one, I am trying to get the SD card to work in scope but I am apparently doing something wrong. I don't have any intention on selling it, I will leave this to my son one day so $value doesn't really matter to me, I wouldn't wanna diminish it though if that makes sense, for example my wife collects coins, I've heard her say don't clean them. I didn't know if that was the case with these. Thanks!

07-15-2023, 03:54 PM	#8
Jake User Join Date: Jun 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I'm still trying to figure out the letter part of serial number on the luger. My local gunshop showed me a page in his blue book with the N and crown and said it was 1950, not sure about that. Also where would the serial number on the magazine be? I don't see any markings on the metal or on the wooden part on the bottom?

07-15-2023, 05:20 PM	#9
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	List of suffix alphabet types attached. G2 https://www.lugerforum.com/lugermark...xes/suffix.jpg

07-16-2023, 10:00 PM	#14
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	Firing that sucker for the first several rounds requires you wear heavy gloves stand behind a protective item, a tree works well....REACH AROUND THE TRUNK Face shield is recommended slow fire that weapon..... And most importantly, have fun.......

07-17-2023, 01:55 AM	#15
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	"I do not know the history of your ammo but do not shoot reloads, unless you have loaded them yourself."Kiwi Now there is some of the best advice in this thread.