How Many Martz Baby Lugers Were Made?

TomJohn · 06-28-2023, 01:02 PM

I'm new here, so I apologize if this is the wrong discussion forum for this thread. I recently bought what I think is a Martz baby luger. It is in the white, has a 2.25" barrel, shortened frame at the grips, and under the side plate, on the frame, it is stamped JM (not JVM) in an oval. Also, under the sideplate, it has MSTR, and a 53 (with a reverse 3) in an oval. Beside that 53 is another correct 53, not in an oval. I assume this is a production number. The toggle inscription is the figured script DWM. I know the meaning of DWM and MSTR. It is fitted with the MSTR. I'm a collector and have several lugers.

The frame and receiver are mismatched serials, with the frame having a four-digit over script 'a' serial number, and the receiver having three late DWM acceptance marks and an Imperial Army proof. The receiver is chamber-marked 1916. The three magazines are fitted (shortened) WWII-era with unmarked aluminum bases. Each has a tiny waffenamt eagle over 37 on the upper frame. Two of the bases are pinned thru the finger grips and the frame is blue, while the third is pinned thru the magazine frame and appears tin plated. The walnut checkered grips are spliced horrizontally midway, and one side is done so well it is unnoticeable from the front. The pistol is 9mm.

My main curiosity is wondering how many Martz baby lugers were made. I've seen references to "approximately 213", and "less than 300". I realize it could be far more than that. If anyone has some definitive information, or a reference, I would appreciate it. Thanks for reading.

reiver · 06-28-2023, 01:54 PM

I'd be interested in how it cycles..I know Lugermans conversions work very well...I've heard iffy things about the Martz conversions if this is in .45..if 9 disregard.

TomJohn · 06-28-2023, 05:49 PM

It is a 9mm. I haven't fired it yet, but I will. I'm still trying to learn all I can about it.

TomJohn · 06-28-2023, 08:55 PM

Ok, I've checked several auction sites that have sold Martz baby lugers over the past several years, and, suprisingly, some of them have listed the production number (in an oval behind the trigger plate). The highest number I've come across so far is 206. So if anyone is aware of, or has, a number higher than this, I'd be interested in knowing what it is. Maybe we can find the answer to a question that seems to be unanswered...

TomJohn · 06-29-2023, 09:44 PM

Well, since there hasn't been much response, I'm going to post the information I have acquired, and maybe it will help someone else in the future. I found 14 baby lugers that have been auctioned over the last couple of decades and have also identified their production numbers. Here are the numbers, in sequence:
#1 - yes, one of them was production #1
#22
#30
#53 - mine
#84
#86-7 - I don't know what the hyphenated numbers mean -
perhaps a barrel length? More likely, since they are
sequential (7-10-11), they refer to some change in the
production process?
#87
#105
#122-10
#133-11
#139 - engraved
#158
#175
#206
I also came across the information that 7 baby lugers were made in .380. I could not find any information on how many were 9mm and .30 luger. Those were evidently the only calibers made in baby lugers. From the auction listings, 9mm was much more common than 30 luger. The most authorative source I found on production numbers was from Gun Values by Gun Digest. I'm not sure I'm allowed to post the link here.

Ron Wood · 06-30-2023, 01:18 AM

#5745, 1900 converted to coil mainspring, 7.65mm, 7-shot

TomJohn · 06-30-2023, 03:58 PM

Ron - I'm not sure what you're saying here. You have a Martz luger with a serial number of 5745? Is that the production number or the serial number? Is it a baby luger? The production number should be on the frame under the trigger plate (sideplate) - usually in an oval.

TomJohn · 06-30-2023, 04:32 PM

Two things about this pic: There is the (Arrggg..) notorious grip chip below the safety lever. Came that way. Also, although the pic doesn't do it justice, the strawing has been redone and is gorgeous.

Ron Wood · 06-30-2023, 05:21 PM

That is the serial number. The number under the side plate is 136-12
Ron

reiver · 06-30-2023, 05:36 PM

Ron, that is a sweet little booger...DWM originally? Has that Swiss look.

TomJohn · 06-30-2023, 05:52 PM

Ron - Thanks! That is a gorgeous pistol! I'll add it to my list.

TomJohn · 06-30-2023, 06:06 PM

I’m posting the updated information I have acquired so it may help someone else in the future. I found 16 baby lugers that have been auctioned or reported over the last couple of decades and have also identified their production numbers. Here are the production numbers, in sequence:
#1 - yes, one of them was production #1
#2
#22
#30
#53 - mine
#84
#86-7 - I don't know what the hyphenated numbers mean - perhaps a barrel length? More likely, since they are sequential (7-10-11-12), they refer to some change in the
production process?
#87
#105
#122-10
#133-11
#136-12
#139 - engraved
#158
#175
#206
I also came across the information that 7 baby lugers were made in .380. I could not find any information on how many were 9mm and .30 luger. Those were evidently the only calibers made in baby lugers. From the auction listings, 9mm was much more common than 30 luger. The most authoratative source I found on production numbers was from Gun Values by Gun Digest. I'm not sure I'm allowed to post the link here.

06-30-2023, 01:18 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,174 Times in 1,701 Posts	#5745, 1900 converted to coil mainspring, 7.65mm, 7-shot __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-30-2023, 05:21 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,174 Times in 1,701 Posts	That is the serial number. The number under the side plate is 136-12 Ron Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-30-2023, 05:52 PM	#11
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	Ron - Thanks! That is a gorgeous pistol! I'll add it to my list. Last edited by TomJohn; 06-30-2023 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Correcting error

06-28-2023, 01:02 PM	#1
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	How Many Martz Baby Lugers Were Made? I'm new here, so I apologize if this is the wrong discussion forum for this thread. I recently bought what I think is a Martz baby luger. It is in the white, has a 2.25" barrel, shortened frame at the grips, and under the side plate, on the frame, it is stamped JM (not JVM) in an oval. Also, under the sideplate, it has MSTR, and a 53 (with a reverse 3) in an oval. Beside that 53 is another correct 53, not in an oval. I assume this is a production number. The toggle inscription is the figured script DWM. I know the meaning of DWM and MSTR. It is fitted with the MSTR. I'm a collector and have several lugers. The frame and receiver are mismatched serials, with the frame having a four-digit over script 'a' serial number, and the receiver having three late DWM acceptance marks and an Imperial Army proof. The receiver is chamber-marked 1916. The three magazines are fitted (shortened) WWII-era with unmarked aluminum bases. Each has a tiny waffenamt eagle over 37 on the upper frame. Two of the bases are pinned thru the finger grips and the frame is blue, while the third is pinned thru the magazine frame and appears tin plated. The walnut checkered grips are spliced horrizontally midway, and one side is done so well it is unnoticeable from the front. The pistol is 9mm. My main curiosity is wondering how many Martz baby lugers were made. I've seen references to "approximately 213", and "less than 300". I realize it could be far more than that. If anyone has some definitive information, or a reference, I would appreciate it. Thanks for reading. Last edited by TomJohn; 06-28-2023 at 05:46 PM.

06-28-2023, 01:54 PM	#2
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	I'd be interested in how it cycles..I know Lugermans conversions work very well...I've heard iffy things about the Martz conversions if this is in .45..if 9 disregard.

06-28-2023, 05:49 PM	#3
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	It is a 9mm. I haven't fired it yet, but I will. I'm still trying to learn all I can about it.

06-28-2023, 08:55 PM	#4
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	Ok, I've checked several auction sites that have sold Martz baby lugers over the past several years, and, suprisingly, some of them have listed the production number (in an oval behind the trigger plate). The highest number I've come across so far is 206. So if anyone is aware of, or has, a number higher than this, I'd be interested in knowing what it is. Maybe we can find the answer to a question that seems to be unanswered...

06-29-2023, 09:44 PM	#5
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	Well, since there hasn't been much response, I'm going to post the information I have acquired, and maybe it will help someone else in the future. I found 14 baby lugers that have been auctioned over the last couple of decades and have also identified their production numbers. Here are the numbers, in sequence: #1 - yes, one of them was production #1 #22 #30 #53 - mine #84 #86-7 - I don't know what the hyphenated numbers mean - perhaps a barrel length? More likely, since they are sequential (7-10-11), they refer to some change in the production process? #87 #105 #122-10 #133-11 #139 - engraved #158 #175 #206 I also came across the information that 7 baby lugers were made in .380. I could not find any information on how many were 9mm and .30 luger. Those were evidently the only calibers made in baby lugers. From the auction listings, 9mm was much more common than 30 luger. The most authorative source I found on production numbers was from Gun Values by Gun Digest. I'm not sure I'm allowed to post the link here.

06-30-2023, 03:58 PM	#7
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	Ron - I'm not sure what you're saying here. You have a Martz luger with a serial number of 5745? Is that the production number or the serial number? Is it a baby luger? The production number should be on the frame under the trigger plate (sideplate) - usually in an oval.

06-30-2023, 04:32 PM	#8
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	Two things about this pic: There is the (Arrggg..) notorious grip chip below the safety lever. Came that way. Also, although the pic doesn't do it justice, the strawing has been redone and is gorgeous. Attached Thumbnails

06-30-2023, 05:36 PM	#10
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	Ron, that is a sweet little booger...DWM originally? Has that Swiss look.

06-30-2023, 06:06 PM	#12
TomJohn User Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Southwest Georgia - been here 48 years. Posts: 12 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 6 Posts	Updated Martz Baby Luger Production Number List I’m posting the updated information I have acquired so it may help someone else in the future. I found 16 baby lugers that have been auctioned or reported over the last couple of decades and have also identified their production numbers. Here are the production numbers, in sequence: #1 - yes, one of them was production #1 #2 #22 #30 #53 - mine #84 #86-7 - I don't know what the hyphenated numbers mean - perhaps a barrel length? More likely, since they are sequential (7-10-11-12), they refer to some change in the production process? #87 #105 #122-10 #133-11 #136-12 #139 - engraved #158 #175 #206 I also came across the information that 7 baby lugers were made in .380. I could not find any information on how many were 9mm and .30 luger. Those were evidently the only calibers made in baby lugers. From the auction listings, 9mm was much more common than 30 luger. The most authoratative source I found on production numbers was from Gun Values by Gun Digest. I'm not sure I'm allowed to post the link here.