Drum beat! Pretend crazy or real crazy!

G.T. · 03-01-2023, 11:17 PM

Hi to all, if you remember last time I reported on drum magazine issues, I had installed a slightly longer ejector and it aliveated the ejection problem I was having with a customers drum mag! I thought it was cured, but in running a few strings thru the drum I still experienced very random ejection issues! Soooo, is it the drum or the Luger? Finding out proved to be much more difficult then I would have ever imagined. I finally had tried the drum in enough Lugers to determine that the problem was not with the drum.
Sooo, testing the Luger and swapping parts between working and non-working Lugers, I isolated it to the upper receiver, and then to the toggle train, and then, where do you go next! After repeating the testing several times, I came to the conclusion the culprit was the very bottom recessed lip on the breechblock!!! If it has been refinished, or worn so that there is a radius on the lip, the empty brass is coming off the extractor before it even gets to the ejector. I installed a sweet toggle train off of a 1940/42 luger and the combination worked perfectly! The I realized, I had once posted a note about installing a new breechblock into my bench testing Luger and it threw the brass out so robustly that it almost eliminated my computer screen!!!

So, there you have it, and I have to add, the only time it affects the ejection is with the drum? With a stick mag, it runs fine. The drum brings out any little problem. You need a healthy Luger to use the drum. Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

rolandtg · 03-02-2023, 12:55 AM

You always make the most interesting posts.

G.T. · 03-02-2023, 11:26 AM

I appreciate the kind words! I always give considerable thought as to what I'm going to write, and one of the prerequisites is that it be food for thought, or a knowledge sharing experience that fellow collectors, forum members, or Luger shooters can relate to?
I was thinking about what it took in effort, to reach some of my conclusions on this ongoing quest? As to date I have run about / approx. 16,000 rounds thru my bench test Luger, and another 6,000
rounds live at the range. That's where these Luger drum malfunctions and demons live and the problems I now find are in un-charted territory, AND, beginning to seriously challenge my skill sets... Still, I suit up every day to do some more polishing and tuning to give my fellow forum members a fighting chance to enjoy their investment in our hobby!
Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT..

Stu · 03-02-2023, 05:58 PM

So satisfying to be able to determine the root cause of a problem like that !

G.T. · 03-02-2023, 07:34 PM

It's more satisfying adding something, "relatively finite" (Oxymoron?)

to the knowledge base! Now if I can just retain what i've learned!

Best, til.....lat'r.....GT

Ron Wood · 03-02-2023, 07:57 PM

Oh man!...retaining what you have learned is the hardest part of advancing years. I speak from experience.

chuck17 · 03-04-2023, 08:27 PM

I agree that your posts are interesting. Thanks for all of your insight into Lugers! I recently bought one of the GT Special drum magazines but have yet to try it out. I will get it to the range soon!

DonVoigt · 03-29-2023, 10:40 AM

I consider myself fortunate if I can remember that I found something related to the problem at hand.
Then I have to recall what the "something " was !

GT,
you are an inspiration to "never give up".

I can add that I have 3 or 4 of the Numrich drums, first one I bought on my own and found problems- GT and I did a long distance collaboration on that one and got it going.
I have a couple original drums that are quirky too, and would benefit from "treatment" - but won't get it- as I have others to shoot, and they should remain "original"

The next several were "GT" improved models, but of different iterations over several years. I still need to get one of the latest and "best" reworks!

I have one Navy luger, which I assembled from parts, that will shoot most any magazine or drum or ammo; others including matching pistols, just won't play well with
a drum! So if your "GT" drum doesn't work, it is quite likely the luger itself, or the ammo!

G.T. · 03-29-2023, 07:05 PM

Don is way too modest! On the problem solving trail, he was right beside me step for step, and sometimes leading the way! We sent countless emails back and forth and attacked each problem as they became appearant! It was no small task, and several of the issues took weeks to figure out, and we were way far away from where we started when we finished. This sequence repeated its self every time a malfunction was diagnosed?
Don is correct in that anything less then a perfectly functioning Luger will likely NOT run a complete cycle thru a drum! If you have any facet of the Luger function with borderline performance, it will most likely fail with the drum. It, the drum, seems to magnify issues and problems that up until now, you weren't aware of?
Back to Don, he is an important part of G.T. Specialties, but more importantly, he is my friend!

Best to all, til.....lat'r....GT

DonVoigt · 03-30-2023, 10:01 AM

GT is too kind, not only to me but everyone who deals with him.

He does the work, I'm a collaborator or is it an "accomplice" ?

03-01-2023, 11:17 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Drum beat! Pretend crazy or real crazy! Hi to all, if you remember last time I reported on drum magazine issues, I had installed a slightly longer ejector and it aliveated the ejection problem I was having with a customers drum mag! I thought it was cured, but in running a few strings thru the drum I still experienced very random ejection issues! Soooo, is it the drum or the Luger? Finding out proved to be much more difficult then I would have ever imagined. I finally had tried the drum in enough Lugers to determine that the problem was not with the drum. Sooo, testing the Luger and swapping parts between working and non-working Lugers, I isolated it to the upper receiver, and then to the toggle train, and then, where do you go next! After repeating the testing several times, I came to the conclusion the culprit was the very bottom recessed lip on the breechblock!!! If it has been refinished, or worn so that there is a radius on the lip, the empty brass is coming off the extractor before it even gets to the ejector. I installed a sweet toggle train off of a 1940/42 luger and the combination worked perfectly! The I realized, I had once posted a note about installing a new breechblock into my bench testing Luger and it threw the brass out so robustly that it almost eliminated my computer screen!!! So, there you have it, and I have to add, the only time it affects the ejection is with the drum? With a stick mag, it runs fine. The drum brings out any little problem. You need a healthy Luger to use the drum. Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

03-02-2023, 11:26 AM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Thanks Dana! I appreciate the kind words! I always give considerable thought as to what I'm going to write, and one of the prerequisites is that it be food for thought, or a knowledge sharing experience that fellow collectors, forum members, or Luger shooters can relate to? I was thinking about what it took in effort, to reach some of my conclusions on this ongoing quest? As to date I have run about / approx. 16,000 rounds thru my bench test Luger, and another 6,000 rounds live at the range. That's where these Luger drum malfunctions and demons live and the problems I now find are in un-charted territory, AND, beginning to seriously challenge my skill sets... Still, I suit up every day to do some more polishing and tuning to give my fellow forum members a fighting chance to enjoy their investment in our hobby! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT..

03-02-2023, 07:34 PM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Hi Stu It's more satisfying adding something, "relatively finite" (Oxymoron?) to the knowledge base! Now if I can just retain what i've learned! Best, til.....lat'r.....GT

03-02-2023, 07:57 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Oh man!...retaining what you have learned is the hardest part of advancing years. I speak from experience. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-29-2023, 10:40 AM	#8
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	I consider myself fortunate if I can remember that I found something related to the problem at hand. Then I have to recall what the "something " was ! GT, you are an inspiration to "never give up". I can add that I have 3 or 4 of the Numrich drums, first one I bought on my own and found problems- GT and I did a long distance collaboration on that one and got it going. I have a couple original drums that are quirky too, and would benefit from "treatment" - but won't get it- as I have others to shoot, and they should remain "original" The next several were "GT" improved models, but of different iterations over several years. I still need to get one of the latest and "best" reworks! I have one Navy luger, which I assembled from parts, that will shoot most any magazine or drum or ammo; others including matching pistols, just won't play well with a drum! So if your "GT" drum doesn't work, it is quite likely the luger itself, or the ammo! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-02-2023, 12:55 AM	#2
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 477 Thanks: 378 Thanked 258 Times in 113 Posts	You always make the most interesting posts.

03-02-2023, 05:58 PM	#4
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	So satisfying to be able to determine the root cause of a problem like that !

03-04-2023, 08:27 PM	#7
chuck17 User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fla Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	I agree that your posts are interesting. Thanks for all of your insight into Lugers! I recently bought one of the GT Special drum magazines but have yet to try it out. I will get it to the range soon!

03-29-2023, 07:05 PM	#9
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Dons involvement with the drum project! Don is way too modest! On the problem solving trail, he was right beside me step for step, and sometimes leading the way! We sent countless emails back and forth and attacked each problem as they became appearant! It was no small task, and several of the issues took weeks to figure out, and we were way far away from where we started when we finished. This sequence repeated its self every time a malfunction was diagnosed? Don is correct in that anything less then a perfectly functioning Luger will likely NOT run a complete cycle thru a drum! If you have any facet of the Luger function with borderline performance, it will most likely fail with the drum. It, the drum, seems to magnify issues and problems that up until now, you weren't aware of? Back to Don, he is an important part of G.T. Specialties, but more importantly, he is my friend! Best to all, til.....lat'r....GT

03-30-2023, 10:01 AM	#10
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	GT is too kind, not only to me but everyone who deals with him. He does the work, I'm a collaborator or is it an "accomplice" ? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie