Navy Cleaning Rod History Turned Upside Down.

m1903a3 · 02-13-2018, 03:03 AM

As long as I have been collecting Imperial Navy P.04s and their accessories I have believed the Brass zig-zag pattern was the original type cleaning rod and the steel ones were the later ones. This is presented as established fact in any number of books on the subject, including the authoritative Görtz and Sturgess set.

But it isn't true!

I've had a copy of the second (1913) printing of the official P.04 manual for a while, but I had not read it from cover to cover. The title page of the 1913 version says that revisions 1, 2 and 4 are incorporated in the text. It also says that revision 3 was in a footnote to the section on the cleaning rod.

Recently I received a copy of an original 1906 manual from a European member, which prompted me to compare them.

Surprise! The original 1906 manual describes the cleaning rod as made of steel, with a brass tip to protect the bore. The 1913 manual has the same text, with the addition of the footnote (which reflects revision 3) which says "Since 1910 the cleaning rod is made of brass."

So, the steel rod with a brass tip is officially the first Navy cleaning rod.
The brass rods came in 1910.

That leaves the steel rods with a steel tip. I know from my research into the ditty boxes that the Navy was very short of brass late in the war, to the extent that they asked the sailors to forego their brass nameplates.

That leaves open the (likely) possibility that the Navy returned to a steel rod to save brass at some point during the war, probably with a steel tip.

cirelaw · 02-13-2018, 02:51 PM

From Uncle George~ How about all brass?

cirelaw · 02-13-2018, 04:08 PM

I found my other~

mrerick · 02-13-2018, 04:36 PM

Mike, thanks for the research and update. I have made this thread "sticky".
Marc

cirelaw · 02-13-2018, 09:57 PM

Did the make rods specifically for P08s?

Proofed · 09-13-2019, 10:49 PM

I believe this is authentic

Norme · 09-13-2019, 11:22 PM

I don't think so.
Norm

hayhugh · 09-14-2019, 07:24 AM

Do to the length of official cleaning rods, they were intended to be used from the muzzle end of the pistol, correct?

George Anderson · 09-14-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayhugh

Do to the length of official cleaning rods, they were intended to be used from the muzzle end of the pistol, correct?

Yes

G41M · 08-12-2022, 09:54 AM

New to the forum, not new to Lugers. Picked this up some years ago.

Norme · 08-12-2022, 10:32 AM

Hi, and welcome to the forum! Your Navy rod looks good to me, but to be certain check it out against the original drawings.
Regards, Norm

Vlim · 08-12-2022, 11:26 AM

Interesting. Recently got an older 1904 manual repro.
Will check it out.

02-13-2018, 03:03 AM	#1
m1903a3 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 198 Thanks: 26 Thanked 315 Times in 112 Posts	Navy Cleaning Rod History Turned Upside Down. As long as I have been collecting Imperial Navy P.04s and their accessories I have believed the Brass zig-zag pattern was the original type cleaning rod and the steel ones were the later ones. This is presented as established fact in any number of books on the subject, including the authoritative Görtz and Sturgess set. But it isn't true! I've had a copy of the second (1913) printing of the official P.04 manual for a while, but I had not read it from cover to cover. The title page of the 1913 version says that revisions 1, 2 and 4 are incorporated in the text. It also says that revision 3 was in a footnote to the section on the cleaning rod. Recently I received a copy of an original 1906 manual from a European member, which prompted me to compare them. Surprise! The original 1906 manual describes the cleaning rod as made of steel, with a brass tip to protect the bore. The 1913 manual has the same text, with the addition of the footnote (which reflects revision 3) which says "Since 1910 the cleaning rod is made of brass." So, the steel rod with a brass tip is officially the first Navy cleaning rod. The brass rods came in 1910. That leaves the steel rods with a steel tip. I know from my research into the ditty boxes that the Navy was very short of brass late in the war, to the extent that they asked the sailors to forego their brass nameplates. That leaves open the (likely) possibility that the Navy returned to a steel rod to save brass at some point during the war, probably with a steel tip. __________________ - Mike Life member: NRA, OVMS, VGCA Member: NAPCA, N-SSA(Veteran) Si vis pacem, para bellum Last edited by m1903a3; 08-31-2024 at 09:59 PM.

02-13-2018, 02:51 PM	#2
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	How Nice~ From Uncle George~ How about all brass? Attached Thumbnails

02-13-2018, 04:08 PM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I found my other~ Attached Thumbnails

02-13-2018, 04:36 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Mike, thanks for the research and update. I have made this thread "sticky". Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-13-2019, 10:49 PM	#6
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	Early Navy Rod I believe this is authentic Attached Thumbnails

02-13-2018, 09:57 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Did the make rods specifically for P08s?

09-13-2019, 11:22 PM	#7
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I don't think so. Norm

09-14-2019, 07:24 AM	#8
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 894 Thanks: 856 Thanked 513 Times in 275 Posts	Do to the length of official cleaning rods, they were intended to be used from the muzzle end of the pistol, correct?

08-12-2022, 09:54 AM	#10
G41M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: Texas Posts: 35 Thanks: 83 Thanked 143 Times in 24 Posts	Navy Cleaning Rod, Brass Tip New to the forum, not new to Lugers. Picked this up some years ago. Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2022, 10:32 AM	#11
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi, and welcome to the forum! Your Navy rod looks good to me, but to be certain check it out against the original drawings. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2022, 11:26 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Interesting. Recently got an older 1904 manual repro. Will check it out.