Hold opens

[jeb111]

I was just curious, what was the big advantage of a Luger having a hold open? I definitely see the benefit of other types of automatics having the slide stay open after the mag is empty but with the Luger still having to pull up on the toggle after swapping mags doesn’t seem to save time or hand movements. A 1911 it’s just a simple thumb pull on the slide lever and off you go.
Jim

[HerrKaiser]

It’s a very clear and definitive reminder that your magazine is empty. You sometimes have to yell at your buddy that their gun is empty if the slide locks back and they’re too focused on aiming. I’ve never had to be reminded of this when I shoot a Luger with a working holdopen.

It also does make for easier loading in my book. And once you play with a shooter the same way you break in your newest wonder 9 of choice, working the toggles is just as easy as a slide.

I also find the holdopen very helpful in dis/reassembly of the gun for cleaning.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

...working the toggles is just as easy as a slide.

I also find the holdopen very helpful in dis/reassembly of the gun for cleaning.

I agree. One needn't even grasp the toggle knobs, but instead give them a bump backwards with the heel of the weak hand to relieve the pressure the holdopen allowing it to drop and the action to subsequently snap into battery.

I also use an empty mag to lock the action open for disassembly. It seems less haphazard compared to shoving the muzzle against something. We'll leave that for those whose Luger shooters don't have a holdopen!

[sdmark777]

Actually if you follow the most current tactical handgun training you no longer use the slide stop to release the slide after inserting a new loaded mag for a mag change. Instead, you grasp your offhand over the slide, pull to the rear and release. This current style is preferred because it can be difficult under stressful combat situations to hit the release, blood, water, mud, small muscle memory. Grasping the slide is considered more reliable and large muscle memory. So since the Luger does not have a slide release like the 1911, it is all ready up to speed for the modern technique of grasping the slide or in this case the toggle. Also, you don't necessarily have to grab the toggle by the two ears when it is help up by the hold open. You can strike the front of upright toggle with the palm of your hand from muzzle rearward. A good strike is all you need to move the toggle rearward slightly, releasing the hold open. This allows for very fast reloads.
So yes, the Luger's hold open is an advancement in design and necessary for expedited reloads and general handling. (Even though I have been trained and practice the new tactical technique of grabbing the slide on 1911's, I still often revert to using the slide release. After decades of shooting the old way, I feel the muscle memory is already imprinted on me).

[jeb111]

I also have used the hold open for disassembly and cleaning. I didn't know about bumping the back of the toggle with your palm, interesting, and of course having it stay open when it's empty is a plus. So I guess the bumping of the back of the held open toggle with the palm of your hand is as easy and fast as releasing the catch on a slide action pistol.
Thanks
Jim

[gunnertwo]

I use the "Hold Open" to ease the take down of the pistol. Empty gun, toggle to rear, turn take down lever, ease toggle forward and remove toggle train. Eliminates pressing rearward on the top half.

G2

[MFC]

No need to pull the toggles all the way back or press the muzzle against anything.
For takedown the easiest way is in the manual.
Grab the Luger as the picture shows and squeeze.

[sdmark777]

Jim said, " I didn't know about bumping the back of the toggle with your palm, interesting, and".

Actually you need to bump the front of the toggle reward. Just to be clear.

[jeb111]

Thanks that’s the way I understood it just didn’t clearly get across what I meant. Sometimes I lose something between my brain and the key pad, almost as bad when I have to leave a voicemail for someone!
Jim

[gunbugs]

For disassembly, I follow the manual, like Mike C. (MFC) suggests. It works well for me, as I have pretty good hand strength.

[Doubs]

Or, with the magazine out and having made certain that the chamber is empty, I place the muzzle against my palm, hook the trigger guard with my finger and squeeze the upper rearward. That's with the short barrel, obviously. For longer barrels I place something soft on a table top and push the muzzle against it.

In both cases, the firing pin is at rest. Using the hold open to allow rotating the locking bolt, you either hold the side plate to release the firing pin by squeezing the trigger as the toggles go forward or you push the sear to release the firing pin after removing the upper. Neither way is as easy as the method I use.

[spangy]

Originally Posted by gunbugs

For disassembly, I follow the manual, like Mike C. (MFC) suggests. It works well for me, as I have pretty good hand strength.

Same here ... I find this is by far the easiest road to disassembly but each to his own ya ??

[Vlim]

Seems like Mauser pocket pistols are up to date again.
The slide locks open after the last shot. When the magazine is inserted, the slide automatically closes, feeding a round, ready to go.

[ithacaartist]

Latest tactical training aside, I hope an alternative to racking the slide with the weak hand is taught for instances when the shooter only has one hand. Dragging it back by scrubbing the rear sight against the belt...or hitting the slide release?

Even if its unloaded, I am reticent to put the muzzle of any firearm against any part of my body. The original manual may recommends the "squeezing" method, but minimal hand strength is required for the empty mag method, and no worries about slipping or skidding. It's as if whoever wrote the old manual didn't realize that empty mags existed.

[Heinz]

Vlim, I spent some time trying to figure out why my Mauser 1914 was slamming forward when I put the magazine in. Once I knew it was supposed to work like that I developed a fondness for it

[MikeP]

Though 90% of pistols spend most all their time holstered, if you do find yourself using one in a fight, it's a pretty good idea to have an indication you have expended your ammo beyond a trigger pull on an empty chamber and a dumb look on your face.
Hard to see why that is even a question.
PO8s were adopted as a 1st line general issue handgun for potential combat and stayed there for a long time. Little or no consideration given to range or disassembly niceties. Life or death.

[m1903a3]

Originally Posted by spangy

Same here ... I find this is by far the easiest road to disassembly but each to his own ya ??

:LOL: I didn't see that in a manual, but that's how I've been disassembling Parabellums since I got my first one. The contour of the top is perfect for that purpose.