Random and out of nowhere???

G.T. · 08-08-2021, 05:12 PM

Hi to all, In the repair business, Lugers and other things, a fellow can't get too cocky, or too confident, either one! It seems as if things can only go along good, for only so long? It's almost like a sixth sense that tells you you should be looking over your shoulder because here it comes, a problem you've yet to encounter. This time, for me, it was during a drum revision process and function test. The revisions have been going so well, that it is actually boring to go thru the test phase of the process. Load the drum, cycle it thru a luger, grab the next, load the drum, cycle it, grab a drum, etc. etc.

All was going well until about the 12th drum test, I was cranking the rounds thru it and at about the halfway point, the Luger totally failed to extract? and then stacked another round in behind that? Never in the thousands of round cycled, have I had that problem? Ok, remove the drum, clear the jam, and cycle the rest thru. This drum is going to get a re-test! So I load it back up, and this time, same malfunction right off the get go? Has the be the extractor right? Replace the extractor, and spring, annnnnd same problem about 3 rounds in to the test...

.... Now I'm starting to get concerned so I do what any good repair person would do, I let it set, and go make myself a nice tall crown and coke! Ok, good first start, now we're ready to clearly evaluate the problem.
What's changed, or what's not right? Well for starters, I've observed that I've cycled my dummy rounds so much, they have suffered a slight reduction in diameter right behind the bullet, and on the drum, I noticed the feed lips are ever so slightly flared on the front. So, picking my best rounds, and slightly re-setting the feed lips to better contain the cartridge, back to the test bench. Loaded thirty two rounds, and cycled them thru without a bobble!
Turns out, the nose of the next round was poking up just a slight bit too much and it was knocking the round being extracted off the extractor, and as I'm cycling it manually, I was putting the next round up and behind it, making it some worse.

(always gets worse before it gets better)
The lesson to be learned here'in is, when the round to be cycled is up in the feed lips of the mag, (especially the drum mag) less than one third of the cartridge should be visible, and the cartridge should be nearly level, with the bullet being slightly angled up maybe 2 or 3 degrees. Anyway, that's what my hobbit workers tell me... I just open and close! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT...

Edward Tinker · 08-08-2021, 05:36 PM

Always something

What is the OAL length you suggest?
What factory cartridge(s) work the best

G.T. · 08-08-2021, 07:42 PM

Hi Ed, I use WW white box for everything, mostly because they seem to be very consistent and are somewhat comparable with the original loadings everything was designed around.... The drums seem to work best with a cartridge that is 1.150" OAL, most of the WW fall between 1.145 & 1.155" When I have a cartridge stick or jam, usually it is 1.160"+ One thing I've noticed, is that the different brands eject differently? Must be some variance in the extraction grooves or sharp edges on the cartridge rims? Right now, I'm positive that WW white box 115 gr. ball, and Federal 124 gr. ball, will both work without issue in a well tuned drum... I imagine PMC and others will work as well, I just haven't deviated very much from what i know works?... I have had terrible luck with Remington ammo in every luger i've tried it in, I think too short OAL, and in the case of the .30 too weak?... Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT

sheepherder · 08-08-2021, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

The lesson to be learned here'in is...

I'd say the lesson to be learned is to have the crown & coke first!

Edward Tinker · 08-08-2021, 09:47 PM

I asked, because once They got some of your latest GT improved trommel, I bought one again.

Doubs · 08-09-2021, 03:07 AM

G.T., I find that with round nose cartridges I have my best feeding at 1.150" ~ 1,155" OAL. That's what I load my 115 grain RN bullets to.

OTOH, if I'm loading Truncated Cone/Flat Nose bullets - also 115 grain, 1.100" works beautifully.

Mac Cat · 08-09-2021, 10:31 AM

Coke was made for Rhum !!! (IMHO)

hayhugh · 08-09-2021, 11:15 AM

Problems help the day pass faster........

lugerholsterrepair · 08-09-2021, 01:00 PM

Problems help the day pass faster........Yeah, I'm married so I know..like my day is on speed dial.

sheepherder · 08-09-2021, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Problems help the day pass faster........Yeah, I'm married so I know..like my day is on speed dial.

The reward for hard work is...hard work...

lugerholsterrepair · 08-09-2021, 08:27 PM

Dang! Are you sure? My banker is going to be alarmed if I tell him that! He want's MONEY!

08-08-2021, 05:12 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Random and out of nowhere??? Hi to all, In the repair business, Lugers and other things, a fellow can't get too cocky, or too confident, either one! It seems as if things can only go along good, for only so long? It's almost like a sixth sense that tells you you should be looking over your shoulder because here it comes, a problem you've yet to encounter. This time, for me, it was during a drum revision process and function test. The revisions have been going so well, that it is actually boring to go thru the test phase of the process. Load the drum, cycle it thru a luger, grab the next, load the drum, cycle it, grab a drum, etc. etc. All was going well until about the 12th drum test, I was cranking the rounds thru it and at about the halfway point, the Luger totally failed to extract? and then stacked another round in behind that? Never in the thousands of round cycled, have I had that problem? Ok, remove the drum, clear the jam, and cycle the rest thru. This drum is going to get a re-test! So I load it back up, and this time, same malfunction right off the get go? Has the be the extractor right? Replace the extractor, and spring, annnnnd same problem about 3 rounds in to the test....... Now I'm starting to get concerned so I do what any good repair person would do, I let it set, and go make myself a nice tall crown and coke! Ok, good first start, now we're ready to clearly evaluate the problem. What's changed, or what's not right? Well for starters, I've observed that I've cycled my dummy rounds so much, they have suffered a slight reduction in diameter right behind the bullet, and on the drum, I noticed the feed lips are ever so slightly flared on the front. So, picking my best rounds, and slightly re-setting the feed lips to better contain the cartridge, back to the test bench. Loaded thirty two rounds, and cycled them thru without a bobble! Turns out, the nose of the next round was poking up just a slight bit too much and it was knocking the round being extracted off the extractor, and as I'm cycling it manually, I was putting the next round up and behind it, making it some worse. (always gets worse before it gets better) The lesson to be learned here'in is, when the round to be cycled is up in the feed lips of the mag, (especially the drum mag) less than one third of the cartridge should be visible, and the cartridge should be nearly level, with the bullet being slightly angled up maybe 2 or 3 degrees. Anyway, that's what my hobbit workers tell me... I just open and close! Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT...

08-08-2021, 07:42 PM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	best to test! Hi Ed, I use WW white box for everything, mostly because they seem to be very consistent and are somewhat comparable with the original loadings everything was designed around.... The drums seem to work best with a cartridge that is 1.150" OAL, most of the WW fall between 1.145 & 1.155" When I have a cartridge stick or jam, usually it is 1.160"+ One thing I've noticed, is that the different brands eject differently? Must be some variance in the extraction grooves or sharp edges on the cartridge rims? Right now, I'm positive that WW white box 115 gr. ball, and Federal 124 gr. ball, will both work without issue in a well tuned drum... I imagine PMC and others will work as well, I just haven't deviated very much from what i know works?... I have had terrible luck with Remington ammo in every luger i've tried it in, I think too short OAL, and in the case of the .30 too weak?... Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT

08-09-2021, 01:00 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Problems help the day pass faster........Yeah, I'm married so I know..like my day is on speed dial. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-09-2021, 08:27 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Dang! Are you sure? My banker is going to be alarmed if I tell him that! He want's MONEY! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-08-2021, 05:36 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Always something What is the OAL length you suggest? What factory cartridge(s) work the best

08-08-2021, 09:47 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I asked, because once They got some of your latest GT improved trommel, I bought one again.

08-09-2021, 03:07 AM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,684 Times in 553 Posts	G.T., I find that with round nose cartridges I have my best feeding at 1.150" ~ 1,155" OAL. That's what I load my 115 grain RN bullets to. OTOH, if I'm loading Truncated Cone/Flat Nose bullets - also 115 grain, 1.100" works beautifully.

08-09-2021, 10:31 AM	#7
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 729 Thanks: 2,093 Thanked 608 Times in 328 Posts	Coke was made for Rhum !!! (IMHO)

08-09-2021, 11:15 AM	#8
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 896 Thanks: 856 Thanked 513 Times in 275 Posts	Problems help the day pass faster........