1918/1920 Doubledate

MarkC · 10-02-2002, 07:32 PM

Just aquired this Luger with the holster and loading tool from a family member. Can you help me identify the markings? The gun is all matching but has been refinished (a long time ago). No straw.

Doubs · 10-02-2002, 09:41 PM

Mark, I'm afraid I have some rather unpleasant news. While your pistol may have "matching" numbers, the gun is made up of parts from two manufacturers. The barrel, receiver and frame are Erfurt while the toggle you show is DWM.

DWM did not stamp an inspector's mark on the front of the trigger guard as yours has been stamped; only Erfurt did that. The eagle stamp on the right side of the slide and the barrel are both Erfurt eagles. The DWM eagle is different. The inspector's stamp on the locking bolt (take down lever) is also an indication of an Erfurt part.

The Crown/RC stamp on your barrel and trigger guard are an indication of a part having failed an inspection for non-critical tolerances. The part still functions as required and a "Revisions Commission" has given the OK for the part to be used. The C/RC stamp means that any subsequent failure of the part won't be blamed on the normal inspectors. This stamp is found more frequently on Erfurt pistols than on DWM pistols and especially on 1917 and 1918 Erfurts.

As for the markings of "Pw.B.", I'm unable to help there. The lack of a period after the "P" tells me that the "Pw." should be read together and I can find no reference for that marking. IMO, the markings are from the post-war period and most likely indicate a police unit. It's also possible that it's a Weimar military unit marking but I lean more to the police than the military. Again, that's only my opinion.

Perhaps Jan can help you with this one.

MarkC · 10-03-2002, 10:44 PM

Doubs,

Wow! Thanks for the info... at least the price was right! (ie:free) Although this may not be correct forum, what about the holster and loading tool? As an aside, the grips also match the gun, must be some sort of police rework, eh? Hence the 1920 date stamp under the 1918?

Mark

P.S. Should make a great shooter as the bore is mint ++

G.W. Gill · 10-03-2002, 11:23 PM

" Pw.B, PW.B, PWB, applied by the Polizeiwehr Bayerns. The Baverian police service."
From Walter's The Luger Book. Pg. 235. Hope this helps. Have fun!
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Doubs · 10-04-2002, 12:18 AM

Thanks, G.W. - I have the Walter book but didn't look in it.

Mark, the "1920" stamp indicates that the pistol belonged to the Weimar Republic. So many military guns were in the hands of returning soldiers who didn't turn them in that the Republic ordered the stamping of military guns with the property stamp "1920". That immediately identified them as government property.

I can't make out the stamp on the holster but it appears to be original and if you know it's been in the family for many years, that helps to peg it as original. A good examination by a qualified collector could give you more positive information.

Some collectors believe that Erfurt stamped their Luger tools with the crown/gothic letter while DWM did not. I also believe that to be the case and your Luger tool is correct for the pistol IMO.

The DWM toggles may (and I'm guessing here) have been installed before the police obtained the gun for issue. It would explain the matching numbers unless someone later simply found DWM toggles that serially matched and installed them. There's really no sure way to know.

You haven't mentioned the serial number but if there is a lower case script letter on the frame under the numbers, it's part of the serial number. e.g., "1234a". You should record the serial number and suffix letter (if any), the DWM toggle marking, the dates on the chamber and barrel length. That should identify your pistol specifically. Also, pictures of the whole gun are a good idea.

You have an interesting gun even if it's only a shooter and without much collector value. It obviously has some history behind it which gives it character and makes it interesting.

G.W. Gill · 10-05-2002, 02:21 AM

Mark , the "D" on your loading tool may have Bavarian connections, can't be sure because I don't have all the books ect. Could you spell the holster marks?, the first letters were a little hard to read.

Duobs, It's the same old story, this gentleman has a nice pistol and I don't have my resources at hand.

Mark, dont be discouraged about the RC. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

10-02-2002, 07:32 PM	#1
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	1918/1920 Doubledate Just aquired this Luger with the holster and loading tool from a family member. Can you help me identify the markings? The gun is all matching but has been refinished (a long time ago). No straw.

10-02-2002, 09:41 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,695 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,677 Times in 551 Posts	Mark, I'm afraid I have some rather unpleasant news. While your pistol may have "matching" numbers, the gun is made up of parts from two manufacturers. The barrel, receiver and frame are Erfurt while the toggle you show is DWM. DWM did not stamp an inspector's mark on the front of the trigger guard as yours has been stamped; only Erfurt did that. The eagle stamp on the right side of the slide and the barrel are both Erfurt eagles. The DWM eagle is different. The inspector's stamp on the locking bolt (take down lever) is also an indication of an Erfurt part. The Crown/RC stamp on your barrel and trigger guard are an indication of a part having failed an inspection for non-critical tolerances. The part still functions as required and a "Revisions Commission" has given the OK for the part to be used. The C/RC stamp means that any subsequent failure of the part won't be blamed on the normal inspectors. This stamp is found more frequently on Erfurt pistols than on DWM pistols and especially on 1917 and 1918 Erfurts. As for the markings of "Pw.B.", I'm unable to help there. The lack of a period after the "P" tells me that the "Pw." should be read together and I can find no reference for that marking. IMO, the markings are from the post-war period and most likely indicate a police unit. It's also possible that it's a Weimar military unit marking but I lean more to the police than the military. Again, that's only my opinion. Perhaps Jan can help you with this one.

10-03-2002, 10:44 PM	#3
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Doubs, Wow! Thanks for the info... at least the price was right! (ie:free) Although this may not be correct forum, what about the holster and loading tool? As an aside, the grips also match the gun, must be some sort of police rework, eh? Hence the 1920 date stamp under the 1918? Mark P.S. Should make a great shooter as the bore is mint ++

10-03-2002, 11:23 PM	#4
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	" Pw.B, PW.B, PWB, applied by the Polizeiwehr Bayerns. The Baverian police service." From Walter's The Luger Book. Pg. 235. Hope this helps. Have fun! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

10-04-2002, 12:18 AM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,695 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,677 Times in 551 Posts	Thanks, G.W. - I have the Walter book but didn't look in it. Mark, the "1920" stamp indicates that the pistol belonged to the Weimar Republic. So many military guns were in the hands of returning soldiers who didn't turn them in that the Republic ordered the stamping of military guns with the property stamp "1920". That immediately identified them as government property. I can't make out the stamp on the holster but it appears to be original and if you know it's been in the family for many years, that helps to peg it as original. A good examination by a qualified collector could give you more positive information. Some collectors believe that Erfurt stamped their Luger tools with the crown/gothic letter while DWM did not. I also believe that to be the case and your Luger tool is correct for the pistol IMO. The DWM toggles may (and I'm guessing here) have been installed before the police obtained the gun for issue. It would explain the matching numbers unless someone later simply found DWM toggles that serially matched and installed them. There's really no sure way to know. You haven't mentioned the serial number but if there is a lower case script letter on the frame under the numbers, it's part of the serial number. e.g., "1234a". You should record the serial number and suffix letter (if any), the DWM toggle marking, the dates on the chamber and barrel length. That should identify your pistol specifically. Also, pictures of the whole gun are a good idea. You have an interesting gun even if it's only a shooter and without much collector value. It obviously has some history behind it which gives it character and makes it interesting.

10-05-2002, 02:21 AM	#6
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mark , the "D" on your loading tool may have Bavarian connections, can't be sure because I don't have all the books ect. Could you spell the holster marks?, the first letters were a little hard to read. Duobs, It's the same old story, this gentleman has a nice pistol and I don't have my resources at hand. Mark, dont be discouraged about the RC. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />