When were unfluted firing pins modified / replaced ?

[Stu]

I have a 1913 / 1920 DWM & a 1918 / 1920 Erfurt that both have unfluted firing pins. I'm surprised that at least one didn't get fluted at some point.

Was it common for unfluted pins to remain in use ?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Stu, It's all about time line. I am pretty sure the fluting of firing pins was instigated by Mauser when they developed the handful of meaningful and necessary changes to the DWM Luger pistol upon their re tooling and start of production in the mid 30's. You see many pistols with these changes..WW1 Luger's so modified are many times Police. All that being so, it's possible your pistols never entered into this time zone. Perhaps captured and brought to the USA after or during WW1? Escaping any possible modification. Are they Germany marked?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Stu, It's all about time line. I am pretty sure the fluting of firing pins was instigated by Mauser when they developed the handful of meaningful and necessary changes to the DWM Luger pistol upon their re tooling and start of production in the mid 30's. You see many pistols with these changes..WW1 Luger's so modified are many times Police. All that being so, it's possible your pistols never entered into this time zone. Perhaps captured and brought to the USA after or during WW1? Escaping any possible modification. Are they Germany marked?

Thanks Jerry, a little later than I thought. Both of mine are 1920 Reichswehr marked, no indication of police use, with no import marks.

[Norme]

Hi Stu,
I think the fluted firing pin modification was in response to the introduction of steel cased ammunition late in WW1. Steel cases did not expand as much on firing as brass cases did and gas leakage became a problem.The firing pins of many Imperial Lugers were modified in this way after the war by the armorers who converted them for Police or Navy use. I know that fluted pins were standard on all Mauser and Kreighoff Lugers but I don't know about Simsons, perhaps Ed will fill us in.
Norm

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Stu,
I think the fluted firing pin modification was in response to the introduction of steel cased ammunition late in WW1. Steel cases did not expand as much on firing as brass cases did and gas leakage became a problem.The firing pins of many Imperial Lugers were modified in this way after the war by the armorers who converted them for Police or Navy use. I know that fluted pins were standard on all Mauser and Kreighoff Lugers but I don't know about Simsons, perhaps Ed will fill us in.
Norm

Norm,

I was unaware that steel case German Army ammo was introduced in WWI.

Also, at least for Mauser's war production Lugers, flutes were designed to clear debris not to vent the breach block area.

Respectfully,


Sieger

[Doubs]

According to Gortz & Sturgess, the Reichswehr directed on 17 September, 1930, that the firing pins of all Lugers in inventory were to be modified with flutes by unit armorers. The work was to be completed by 30 September, 1931. All new Lugers purchased after 1930 were to have the fluted firing pins. Chapter 17, page 1116.

[Norme]

Hi Sieger,
According to Görtz/Sturgess steel case ammo was introduced on a limited basis late in WW1.
Norm

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Doubs

According to Gortz & Sturgess, the Reichswehr directed on 17 September, 1930, that the firing pins of all Lugers in inventory were to be modified with flutes by unit armorers. The work was to be completed by 30 September, 1931. All new Lugers purchased after 1930 were to have the fluted firing pins. Chapter 17, page 1116.

Very interesting. I'm intrigued why both of my 1920 marked guns still have unfluted pins, (numbers do match). I assume they weren't in inventory by 1930 ? They're both in reasonable condition and don't have any 'GERMANY', or other marks, indicative of being sold for export.

[Edward Tinker]

I find that most 'early' Simson's are non-fluted, but the vast majority seem fluted to me. My gut feeling (but I have never kept track) is that shortly after production (1925/1926), so mid 20's the requirement for fluted came into existence.

I also seem to remember a directive, that maybe discussed this.


Ed

[Vlim]

Also note that the lubricant of choice in those days was grease and not oil.

Grease has the tendency to clog up in certain areas. Flutes help to prevent the firing pin from sticking on a too heavily greased breech block cavity.