new member that would like input on his new Luger (PIC NOW INCLUDED)

[minigun]

Hello everyone,
I was just approved to get onto this site. Excellent. I just bought a P.08 Luger at a gunshow about two months or so ago and wanted input (and also just to say hello).

I would like to first say that I am not very good with computers and have a very old one at that. I don't have a digital camera to post pics yet(however, I have friends that can do this).

My collection consists mainly of HK (Heckler and Koch) firearms and I wanted to add a Luger to this "German Weapons Collection" that I had.

Here is a description of what I purchased:
Mauser S/42 1937 (dated pistol).

No import marks of any kind on it.

All matching numbered parts.

Serial number is 39XX with a letter under the serial number (or block number) either an "X" or a "K"-it's hard to tell.

Where most "strawing color" is (trigger, safety lever, etc.), mine is blued.

Right side, pistol has an "eagle 63" and two other different types of eagle stamps on it.

Bluing is, I would say, approximately 95% (This is what I would rate it, but look at the description and please feel free to advise further if not correct):

The muzzle (on both sides), in the middle portion of the muzzle, is down to its silver color (I guess holster wear). The length of the barrel retains its blue, but looking in good light you can see it beginning to "freckle" (not rusting-just a little more silvering I guess) a little.
Middle part of frame, the pistol has typical wearing from moving parts. Two small "freckles" of rust are visible on the little side plate on the left side of the handgun (that disassembles first thing-don't know the actual part name).
The handgrip bluing is a little more fadded where your hand goes, but still retains most of the bluing.

The inside of the barrel and bore look to have no pitting or anything-however; looking in good light, you can see a color of rust starting to appear.

Also, if you take a magnifying glass and a mag lite, and look at the outside of the handgun, you can see a hint of rust coloring starting to appear overall. You have to have really strong light to see it, but it is coming up.

The wood handgrips are numbered to the gun and are in excellent shape.

The magazine is not numbered to the gun, but has a serial number stamped to the bottom of the aluminum floorplate and a "t" with an "eagle 63". The bottom portion of the mag has three real small dents in it (which bothers the heck out of me-but I just discovered it).

It had a lot of "crud" in the insides of it. I spent litterally a couple of days with a small toothpick, cotton swabs and small brush just cleaning it up. It's really pretty now.

I paid around $1,500 for the pistol. I just wanted one really bad and the guy I bought it from has been a Luger/P.38/HK seller for a really long time and has a good reputation. I have also bought other guns from him and they were excellent. I didn't know if I was paying too much, but I figured that if I bought one from him I would be getting a "real Luger" and that it definitly would not be misrepresented in any way (which was why I went to him). I figured I would pay a little more and get what I wanted (which was an excellent condition specimen-if you will).

My questions are:
1)Should I shoot it? I am thinking of getting aftermarket grips so that I will not damage the originals. Good idea or not-opinions please. I wanted it as a collector piece that I can take out from time to time and shoot a little bit. I have shot 14 rounds through it so far without a hickup.

2)I have read here about "kits" that some use to replace the small parts when they shoot their guns so that they will not damage the small parts to this gun, what's up on this topic?? What is being replaced and what do I look for???

3)Any special history on this handgun??

4)Any "de-value" of the handgun for the non-matching magazine. Will this hurt the "authenticity" (I guess) of the gun?? Are most Lugers that are in collections (not shooters) with mis-matched magazines???

5)I know without seeing the pistol it's hard to tell, but is the finish about average for a collectors piece, or does it sound to be in better or worse condition??? If it were an HK, I could tell, but I can't with these.

6)What ammo should I use? The dealer that I bought this gun from sold me a box of German manufactured 9mm called "Geco". Any experience with this ammo??? The 14rds that I have fired so far have run flawlessly

7)Anyway to get inside the mag and clean it?? Any suggestions?? I am really trying to get every piece of crud out of the gun that I can. Any way to disassemble the mag?? Or, if there is, should I try??
In conclusion, I really like this pistol and only intended to get one for my collection. I think I am going to get a second. I am thinking of getting one around the same date as this one because I like the non-strawing color better and I have heard that Lugers dated before the actual War were better produced (is that ture?).

I am really new to the Luger world, so please help me out. I am also thinking of getting a P.38 to add. These are just the neatest guns.

The only other experience I have with a Luger is that my father bought one in the '60's (way before I was born). It was a DWM 1918 dated piece. He told me that he bought it in a pawn shop for around $80 (back then). The gun had (what I would rate) about 80% of its bluing and some small rusting areas. The gun had an aftermarket mag (Mexican made) with it. All parts matched, except the mag. The gun jammed quite often (probably mag and ammo related). I also remember that an internal piece broke once when he was firing it. He had taken his DWM to a local gunsmith that welded it back together. I think the piece that broke was the piece where the firing pin goes in (I don't know the offical designation of this part). It's been so long that I had forgotten. Anyway the gun was sold a while back as a shooter for around $300. So I know first hand that these pistols can break. My father really wasn't into cleaning, so maybe that had something to do with the breakage. Are these areas prone to breakage?? What do you think happened in this case?? Oh yeah, one more weird thing about my fathers DWM, where the actions rails are, the top receiver portion was "polished" (as one collector told us). Why would someone "polish" this area?? The bluing was deliberatly taken off and this area was "slicked down".

Sorry for the long windedness, just really currious and wanting a lot of info for my own education about these neat firearms.

Thanks in advance for all responses and opinions.

[Edward Tinker]

Well, that was detailed, pictures are best, but details are good!

First, welcome to our piece of the world and stay around, it is a lot of fun!!

So, I will take a couple of stabs for you.

Matching magazines is a plus and helps bring the price up, but is not a condition to call a gun non-matching, so not having matching mags is acceptable.

I think the price might have been around the right price, a quick look at Simpson's shows two 1937's prices close to what you paid.

2nd variation 1937's were blued and not strawed, and all variations were made in the 4500p and back up through the 400b serial block. That means that 4500p up to 9999p, then 1r then another 9998 and then 1s starting over at the suffix letter A. (There were 126,000 Lugers made that year).

So, yours would have to be an X and not a K, since they did not make K's that year.

300 for your Dads Luger was not a bad buy for someone, I( would have bought it as a shooter.)

If you shoot yours and damage a part that is numbered, you have knocked the value from $1500 to around $500, so...

I'd buy a shooter for around that 2nd price and shoot the heck out of her, but its yours and it is hard not shooting them, but I just keep buying shooter ones to shoot and a few collector ones to go up in value.

[minigun]

Hello again,
I have read a thread here that states the bluing is a "rust bluing". Is that the case here?? Does that refer to the blueing haveing a rusted hint to it when getting into the light really well?

Is there a way to get into the magazine?? I can't see any.

Is there a reason why they heat treated the "strawed parts" different here (why the blued color from the yellow color)?

[Dwight Gruber]

If I understand what you describe, as far as rust bluing is concerned, it is not a sole cause of the rust effect you see--it occurs with salt bluing as well. If you do a search on Simichrome (or Semichrome) Test or Maglight Test you will find a discussion concerning this phenomenon. In short, the rust which you see is characteristic of an old blue--perhaps the original finish, or perhaps an old reblue--this test will not indicate authenticity, only age, of the finish.

--Dwight

[Edward Tinker]

Under the FAQ at http://www.lugerforum.com/FAQ.html you will see a discussion about Rust Blue VS Salt Bluing

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

What looks like rust in your bore is probably copper fouling. Copper solvent and a brass brush will remove it.
Lonnie

[LP08]

For shooting, use replacement grips and possibly replace the firing pin and ejector. Most other parts are fairly durable. One broken factory part, however, and you just lost $1100. One original factory magazine would usually add $100-200 to the value with a non-original magazine. Overall, oil the metal and protect it against moisture in the air. Congratulations on having a nice original luger.

[minigun]

I don't know, it definitly has that rust red look in the barrel. I tried "Shooters Choice" solvent and it has not removed any of it. Strange there is not pitting (that I can see anyway).

I definitly just want to shoot it every now and then though.

Anyone heard of this ammo that I bought with the gun "Geco" (German made 9mm 124 grain)??

[Edward Tinker]

yes, Geco ammo is a European ammunition, I did a search for Geco Ammunition and came up with many hits, but this one has Geco displayed:
http://www.kyimports.com/ammo.htm

[Lugerdoc]

Minigun, If your PO8 magazine is the non-extruded type that has a pin at the lower rear corner, just remove the pin, then the bottom piece, spring & guide and you should be able to clean the grease out of your mag. You can also remove the follower if you wish, but getting the follower button back in, can be tricky. Tom H.

[minigun]

I see the pin you are referring to. Is there a trick to removing it, because I just tried to and it will not budge? I put a little bit of pressure on it, but I didn't want to put a lot for fear of something terribly going wrong.

Thanks again in advance.

[Roadkill]

Support the magazine on its side with a small block of wood and hold the end of the magazine off the edge high enough so that the pin has room to clear. I use a finishing nail a little smaller than the drift pin and a small hammer to tap it out, helps also to use a penetrating oil on it first, as Tom mentioned, pay attention to how the spring & follower come out, they can go back in wrong. I reassemble using the nail to align the holes and make sure the pin goes back in the way it came out. Congratulations on the Luger.

rk

[MauserLugers]

Just my opinion, but removing the connecting pin on a collector quality magazine isn't the smartest thing to do. If you do not get it back perfectly and you dent the sides or leave evidence that the pin was removed, the magazine will be questioned as being faked, messed with, or restamped. Your call, but $1500 for a blued 1937 in 95% condition without a matching magazine is a premium inwhich you do not want to de-value any part of it.

[minigun]

Thanks everyone, guess I'll leave it like it is then. I just didn't know if there was some special way inside or not (like disassembling the 1911 mags).

Thanks

[Johnny Peppers]

There are very few people that can disassemble a Luger magazine and put the pin back in where it shows no evidence of being removed and installed. I agree with MauserLugers that I would leave it alone.
If your barrel is actually copper fouled, just a little brushing with a solvent and bronze bristle brush will not remove it. Even the copper solvents work very slowly. If after using a copper solvent the patches come out blue/green, you have copper fouling. The bronze brush will leave deposits of copper in the bore, so clean the bore thoroughly after brushing it and then apply the copper solvents. There are several compounds for removing copper fouling from the bore like JB's Bore Paste. It works agressively on the copper fouling, but will not harm the bore. Use it on a very tight patch and scrub the bore from the breech end forward, not letting the patch exit the muzzle. Run the patch back and forth 8 to 10 times, then clean the bore out with a solvent and inspect. Repeat as necessary.

[minigun]

Got another question on a marking on the barrel.

There are the numbers "8,81" stamped on the bottom of the barrel (closest to the frame). If looking from the back, forward then the serial number is stamped afterwords.

What are the numbers "8,81"??

Also, the serial number is 39XX "Z" (according to the sales receipt). Not "X" as I had thought. It's just hard to tell due to the script of the stamp.

So, can anything be told from this information??

Thanks

[Stu]

The 8.81 is the land diameter in mm.

The 'Z' is part of the serial number. I believe, (someone will give the correct answer), serial numbers would go from 0001 to 9999 to 0001 A to 9999 A to 0001 B....... if you get the idea. I'm not sure when they restarted, (change in year etc..), but to be on the safe side to completely identify a gun you really want the serial number, suffix letter and year of manufacture. There were certainly several Lugers made with your serial number, 39XX, so without the extra info the gun isn't uniquely identified.

I suspect that for some periods when more than one manfacturer was in operation you want to include that as well ! (ie Erfurt and DWM).
Hope that is a) correct and b) helps !

[minigun]

Here is a link to a pic of my Luger and extra mag:

http://www.auction-images.com/777pac/1937%20Luger.jpg

[saxman]

Since there are no plastic or varnished parts on the magazines, I would clean them without disassembly by blasting them out with spray gun cleaner. Protect your eyes and exposed skin. Spray gun oil on and in the mags after cleaning. Wipe off and drain out excess oil - push the follower all the way down and swab the inside of the mag to remove the liquid oil, leaving only the lightest film.