30 luger point of aim

[Rick W.]

Would it make a difference if one places the tip of the front sight at the top of the rear "V" or at the very bottom of the "V"?

6 o'clock hold or direct on as one of the two choices above?

[k38]

I use the classic 6 o'clock hold: top of front sight even with the tops of the rear sight "ears." POA right below the bull. If you put the top of the front sight at the very bottom of the V, you are depressing the muzzle and will shoot low. I do almost all my shooting at 50 feet, about 17 yards.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Would it make a difference if one places the tip of the front sight at the top of the rear "V" or at the very bottom of the "V"?

6 o'clock hold or direct on as one of the two choices above?

Huge difference. But that is no way to use the sights. You can only get consistent shots aligning the tip of the front sight with the top of the rear sight. They are hard enough to use even that way.

6 o'clock hold.

[Rick W.]

Bill,

I too was taught on occasion to use the 6 o'clock hold, I hold on the bottom of the black where I get to shoot. One never knows how others "hold" their sights.

Some people are just natural shots, about all I can say on some folks I have known. A bit unorthodox in their methods with pistols they were, but one cannot take away their ability to shoot very accurately and resultant hits.

Guess the old Luger was really intended as a battle pistol,when all was said and done. Sometimes in those circumstances, sights are not really necessary. Remember instinctive shooting lessons in the service, quick kill I think it was referred to?

As you know, if a pistol does not shoot the way one wants, there are always methods to move the poi, some easy to do, some harder to do.

I guess it is interesting from a historical point of view of what was intended in the original design, ie read the books senerio like I have been told before here. But if a Luger does not shoot the way I want it to, I modify it until it gives results that suit me.

Who am I to say how one should shoot really? Just kinda glad people still shoot at all in these times. Hold of the sights vary with folks, along with the point of impact.

Thanks for your knowledgeable response.

Rick W.

[DonVoigt]

Rick,
I agree, what ever hold and sight alignment that works for the individual is the "best" for them .

[spacecoast]

My .30 cal alphabet Luger shoots about 6 inches high at 25 yards with the front sight at the bottom of the V. But it is extremely consistent, not hard at all to hold 3-4" groups two-handed.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by spacecoast

My .30 cal alphabet Luger shoots about 6 inches high at 25 yards with the front sight at the bottom of the V. But it is extremely consistent, not hard at all to hold 3-4" groups two-handed.

I compete one handed. And 4 inch groups won't do, not if I intend to win.

[P. Octo]

Shooting a 1906 Swiss commercial: 0.31g (4.78gr) of N340 behind a 93gr coated bullet and either Muron or Fiocchi primers. I must hold at 6 o'clock on the 4/5 ring of the target in #18 post, two handed and, in good days, stay in the 8 at 25m; the blade is even with the top of the V notch. If I use FMJ bullets, it tends to shoot an inch lower, maximum, therefore the choice of the 5 ring.

[DonVoigt]

Like I said,
Aim where it "works" for you, your target and distance, your ammo, and your pistol!

They are all variables that must come together!

[P. Octo]

First, I don't know what prompted me to identify the Luger as a Swiss commercial! It is a Swiss military, sorry.
Next, I'll take out the 1929 Swiss military, use the same reloads and see if they arrive in the same place; this particular Luger has a beautiful trigger pull, perceptively better than the 1906 of my previous post.

[P. Octo]

Took the 06/29 Swiss military out to the range yesterday, same load as in my previous post#28; poi at 6 o'clock: most grouped in the upper half of the bull. Quite happy with the results.

[Vlim]

With the Luger, it is not necessary to shoot/aim with a stretched arm.

In fact, the original shooting stance used back in the day was with the arm a bit bent. Simply reduce the distance between the eye and the sights by 'pulling' the gun towards you by flexing the upper/lower arm a little bit more.

The Germans referred to this as the 'tea pot stance', because, with the body slightly rotated, the shooting arm bent and placing the free arm in the lower back for support. You look a bit like a stylized tea pot, hence the name.

It actually works quite well.

[Vlim]

This test target says 50 Meters.

Anschussentfernung 50m.

[JONABI]

It should have been read this way:" It had come to the attention of the Gewehr-Prüfungskommission that Pistols 08 of DWM manufacture and of Erfurt production differed from each other considerably in respect of point of aim. The point blank sighting range differed between 80 and 110 m. No remedial action had been taken so far, as the G.P.K had been conducting trials to ensure that fitting of the hold-open would not affect the point of aim (Note. meaning shooting trials).Beeing satisfed of this, it suggested to the ministry of War on 24 May 1913 that on accasion of test-firing of altered pistols the point blank range should be standardized at 50 m. For this purpose, front sights of different heights wer to be used:


15.5 mm (minimum height),
15.8 mm (standard height), and

16.1 mm (maximum height),


in each case measured from the centerline of the bore. On 20 October 1913, the Gëwehr-Prüfungskommission revised their findings, the heights of front sights were now to be:


15.1 mm (minimum),
15.4 mm (standard), and
15.7 mm (maximum)" ...

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by JONABI

It should have been read this way:" that Pistols 08 of DWM manufacture and of Erfurt production differed from each other considerably in respect of point of aim. The point blank sighting range differed between 80 and 110 m.

Gortz & Sturgess' comments WRT sight zero can be interpreted a couple of ways. They seem to suggest that DWM zeroed their pistols for 80 meters while Erfurt zeroed for 110 meters. OR they may have meant that guns made by both would zero somewhere between 80 & 110 meters. The explanation is on page 1100 of G&S.

Regardless, the decision was made to replace the front sight blade of already issued Lugers to zero at 50 meters and newly manufactured guns would leave the factory zeroed for 50 meters. The sight change for existing guns was done in conjunction with the modification to install the hold open on those Lugers without them.