Erfurt Police Double Date Frame Mark

frankenlugerguy · 09-23-2020, 05:07 PM

I'm looking to buy this one, but want to get a little more info on it than the seller is providing. Can anyone give any insight on the short, vertical frame cut, just above the left grip panel? I have seen similar frame marks on several Lugers, and even have an artillery with a similar one, but have not been able to identify it.
Thanks.
frankenlugerguy

Click image for larger version

Name: Police Double Date xxx44 Frame Mark 23-Sep-20 15-39-14 A.jpg
Views: 165
Size: 61.8 KB
ID: 80675

Doubs · 09-23-2020, 05:15 PM

Lugers converted to police use had a magazine safety installed. The notch you ask about was done to fit the magazine safety. Most of them have been removed - as that one has - and many have had that notch or slot filled in.

Below is a 1916 Erfurt Luger that was converted and you can see that the slot has been filled in.

frankenlugerguy · 09-24-2020, 02:13 PM

Thanks for the reply, Doubs. That answers it perfectly. In fact, it gives me new perspective on the subject, because I have an Erfurt Police Double Date, with the same filled-in slot. Here's a photo. Looks a lot like yours. I just never thought to look for it. I appreciate your clueing me in.
I believe I'll go ahead and pick up the one with the open slot. That would give me a good companion to my pistol.

Click image for larger version

Name: IMG_2053.jpg
Views: 172
Size: 203.1 KB
ID: 80691

Proofed · 09-24-2020, 04:16 PM

Here's an expanded view

frankenlugerguy · 09-25-2020, 02:30 PM

Terrific, Pr. That illustrates the magazine safety very well. Thanks for going to the trouble to put those images up. Very much appreciated. I don't have one with that safety, but I'll keep my eyes out for one. Doubs is undoubtedly right - most of them have been removed.

Proofed · 09-29-2020, 03:18 PM

The magazine safety spring was made by Walther and was added to police lugers around 1933. There was a slot milled in the outside frame to locate the tab and a round hole was drilled through the frame and in to the mag well for the tab on the spring to access the magazine when installed. The tab behind the trigger would not allow it to function without a mag, once installed the tab would be high enough to allow the trigger to function. At some point later in the 30's there was a directive issued to disable the magazine safety.
Many were removed and some had the tabs ground off and left in place as illustrated.

frankenlugerguy · 09-30-2020, 12:35 PM

Thanks again, Proofed! Yep, here's the hole in mine! Man, stick around and there's no telling what you'll learn!

Click image for larger version

Name: MagSafetyHole.jpg
Views: 158
Size: 122.3 KB
ID: 80764

frankenlugerguy · 09-30-2020, 01:16 PM

Also notice that the grip panel in the photo of my pistol appears to have a cutout, just under the hole, which would allow the safety device to protrude, and operate behind the trigger. Here's a photo of the inside of the grip panel, clearly showing the cutout.

Fascinatin' stuff.

Click image for larger version

Name: Inside L Grip Panel.jpg
Views: 145
Size: 78.9 KB
ID: 80766

Proofed · 10-01-2020, 06:33 AM

The left grip panel is relieved to accommodate the spring as you note. I wonder if at the time of the modification of the pistol if the left grip was replaced or the original modified. My guess is replaced but as stated only a guess. I have a 1921 DWM police luger that was modified to fit the spring and both grips are slightly different.

Turning your grips over do they look like a match.?

frankenlugerguy · 10-01-2020, 04:01 PM

Good point. Both of my grip panels match, as to color and condition, but I believe they are replacements. The reason is, neither has the serial number on it. The right panel is unmarked. The left one has a crown/H cartouche, and the letter "L" stamped, just above the screw cutout, but neither is numbered. Even in my "novice" state, I would guess they're replacements. Have a look at the photo; if you zoom in on it a little, you can see the markings. You can also see a gouge mark, above the crown/H, but no serial number.

09-23-2020, 05:07 PM	#1
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Erfurt Police Double Date Frame Mark I'm looking to buy this one, but want to get a little more info on it than the seller is providing. Can anyone give any insight on the short, vertical frame cut, just above the left grip panel? I have seen similar frame marks on several Lugers, and even have an artillery with a similar one, but have not been able to identify it. Thanks. frankenlugerguy __________________ Cursum Perficio

09-24-2020, 02:13 PM	#3
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Thanks for the reply, Doubs. That answers it perfectly. In fact, it gives me new perspective on the subject, because I have an Erfurt Police Double Date, with the same filled-in slot. Here's a photo. Looks a lot like yours. I just never thought to look for it. I appreciate your clueing me in. I believe I'll go ahead and pick up the one with the open slot. That would give me a good companion to my pistol. __________________ Cursum Perficio

09-24-2020, 04:16 PM	#4
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	magazine safety Here's an expanded view Attached Images

09-25-2020, 02:30 PM	#5
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Terrific, Pr. That illustrates the magazine safety very well. Thanks for going to the trouble to put those images up. Very much appreciated. I don't have one with that safety, but I'll keep my eyes out for one. Doubs is undoubtedly right - most of them have been removed. __________________ Cursum Perficio

09-29-2020, 03:18 PM	#6
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	The magazine safety spring was made by Walther and was added to police lugers around 1933. There was a slot milled in the outside frame to locate the tab and a round hole was drilled through the frame and in to the mag well for the tab on the spring to access the magazine when installed. The tab behind the trigger would not allow it to function without a mag, once installed the tab would be high enough to allow the trigger to function. At some point later in the 30's there was a directive issued to disable the magazine safety. Many were removed and some had the tabs ground off and left in place as illustrated. Attached Thumbnails

09-23-2020, 05:15 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,696 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts	Lugers converted to police use had a magazine safety installed. The notch you ask about was done to fit the magazine safety. Most of them have been removed - as that one has - and many have had that notch or slot filled in. Below is a 1916 Erfurt Luger that was converted and you can see that the slot has been filled in.

09-30-2020, 12:35 PM	#7
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Erfurt Police Double Date Frame Mark Thanks again, Proofed! Yep, here's the hole in mine! Man, stick around and there's no telling what you'll learn! __________________ Cursum Perficio

09-30-2020, 01:16 PM	#8
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Also notice that the grip panel in the photo of my pistol appears to have a cutout, just under the hole, which would allow the safety device to protrude, and operate behind the trigger. Here's a photo of the inside of the grip panel, clearly showing the cutout. Fascinatin' stuff. __________________ Cursum Perficio

10-01-2020, 06:33 AM	#9
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	mag safety grip The left grip panel is relieved to accommodate the spring as you note. I wonder if at the time of the modification of the pistol if the left grip was replaced or the original modified. My guess is replaced but as stated only a guess. I have a 1921 DWM police luger that was modified to fit the spring and both grips are slightly different. Turning your grips over do they look like a match.? Attached Thumbnails

10-01-2020, 04:01 PM	#10
frankenlugerguy User Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: The Mountains of Western North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 563 Thanked 33 Times in 21 Posts	Good point. Both of my grip panels match, as to color and condition, but I believe they are replacements. The reason is, neither has the serial number on it. The right panel is unmarked. The left one has a crown/H cartouche, and the letter "L" stamped, just above the screw cutout, but neither is numbered. Even in my "novice" state, I would guess they're replacements. Have a look at the photo; if you zoom in on it a little, you can see the markings. You can also see a gouge mark, above the crown/H, but no serial number. __________________ Cursum Perficio