Erfurt

merc · 10-26-2002, 07:34 PM

Hi Guys
Here is the Erfurt luger I told you guys about last week.
I have listed the markings on it and a couple of pictures.
Maybe some of you may be able to offer a little insight on it.
Is it military or commercial? Was it a rework (because it has 2 dates? etc.
Thanks
Paul
on top of reciever 1920
1917
left side of receiver 1886
on safety bar on receiver 14
on right side of receiver looks like a group of stars
a crown
3 symbols or numbers unable to read
part of a faded eagle
under the barrel a crown
N
753
xxCSAPENNSAIIKEN (x being illegible letters)
on tang under the slide 2 DOTS
on magazine PO8
fxo
eagle (made of lines)
37
bottom of magazine 1
6702
on side plate 86
inside side plate W
on toggle a crown
ERFURT
30 (with an X through it)
a small crown
a fancy G
left side of bolt a faded eagle
30 (with 2 lines through it)
a fancy G
on take down lever 86
on left of the trigger 86
On left side of the frame A
Front of frame 1886
unidentifiable mark
V in a circle
toggle pin 62 with an X through it
inside frame-near take down pin X
front of trigger guard 2 crowns and a fany letter

Doubs · 10-27-2002, 12:01 AM

Merc, you have an East German rework of an Imperial Erfurt Luger originally issued in 1917. The "1920" was added about 1920 or 1921 to indicate that it belonged to the Weimar government. IOW, it isn't really a "date" but is a property mark.

The markings on the front of the trigger guard means it's an Erfurt frame and the serial numbers on the frame and receiver match so it's likely that they are original to each other.

The toggle train, however, is not original to the pistol as evidenced by the marked out "30" which should be "86" (last two digits of the serial number) if it was original to the pistol.

The "753" under the barrel indicates that the barrel was made in July, 1953. The Crown/N is an East German proof. If you look in the chamber, you may see a visable line around the chamber about 2/3 of the way in. That means the barrel has been lined and you may also see the concentric circle at the muzzle where the liner was inserted. It's usually difficult to see because they did it quite nicely and then blued the muzzle along with the rest of the barrel.

There are several interesting markings you mentioned that I'm unfamiliar with but possibly indicate to whom the pistol was issued while being used by East German police.

The grips are clearly East German "VOPO" (People's Police) plastic grips and the magazine is WW2 military issue.

At the moment the East german reworks are not collectable but in time that may change. In any event, you have what should be a nice mismatched shooter with quite a history behind it. A good gun to own....... congratulations.

Aaron · 10-27-2002, 12:21 AM

Doubs, that was a very gentle and subtle way to break the bad news. I applaud your choice of kind words. One small point, "VOPO" is an abbreviation for "Volks Polizei" and means "People's Police."

merc · 10-27-2002, 10:02 AM

Doubs--Thanks for the reply-This is very interesting-I am sure I will enjoy this gun.

Aaron--
I don't figure how you think any of this can be "bad news"
Maybe all you have are very highly prized collectables.
I feel that any Luger someone is able to get is a collectable to them.
Cheap-Expensive-Rare or shooter or rust bucket...
--A German Luger is not you run of the mill--see it in every shop --on every shelf--hand gun.
I count myself lucky to be able to own 2 Lugers.
And if I told you what I paid for each-you would cry that you hadn't found them 1st.
So--"BAD NEWS"--I don't think so-I got what I wanted and then some.
By the way-I paid 295 for my 1st one (a DWM)and 300 for the Erfurt in this thread.
Have a nice days Aaron
Paul

Aaron · 10-27-2002, 12:43 PM

Merc's questions and his description of his Luger indicate that he is a novice and was hoping he had acquired a very collectible pistol. Also, not one of his comments pertained to shooting his new pistol. His reference to a double date possibly being a rework shows that he has read or heard at least something about Lugers. My comment about "bad news" only refers to the fact that he does not have the collector's item he hoped he had. Your telling him he now has a nice mismatched "shooter" may mean absolutely nothing to him, as he may see himself as a budding collector, not an individual looking for a Luger to take to the range. Better you should have told him what to look for in his next purchase.

Doubs · 10-28-2002, 12:40 AM

Aaron, thanks for the kind words. I tried to explain as much as possible about the gun and with a chance to examine it, I could probably give more details.

You may find this humorous but I'm well aware of the meaning of "VOPO" in German. However, after trying to spell "Polizei" a couple of times - incorrectly, BTW, - I gave up and simply translated it into English. You'll notice "People's Police" is in parenthises after the word "VOPO". Spelling in any language is not my strong suit. [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-26-2002, 07:34 PM	#1
merc User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NH Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Erfurt Hi Guys Here is the Erfurt luger I told you guys about last week. I have listed the markings on it and a couple of pictures. Maybe some of you may be able to offer a little insight on it. Is it military or commercial? Was it a rework (because it has 2 dates? etc. Thanks Paul on top of reciever 1920 1917 left side of receiver 1886 on safety bar on receiver 14 on right side of receiver looks like a group of stars a crown 3 symbols or numbers unable to read part of a faded eagle under the barrel a crown N 753 xxCSAPENNSAIIKEN (x being illegible letters) on tang under the slide 2 DOTS on magazine PO8 fxo eagle (made of lines) 37 bottom of magazine 1 6702 on side plate 86 inside side plate W on toggle a crown ERFURT 30 (with an X through it) a small crown a fancy G left side of bolt a faded eagle 30 (with 2 lines through it) a fancy G on take down lever 86 on left of the trigger 86 On left side of the frame A Front of frame 1886 unidentifiable mark V in a circle toggle pin 62 with an X through it inside frame-near take down pin X front of trigger guard 2 crowns and a fany letter __________________ Merc Living without liberty is not living

10-27-2002, 10:02 AM	#4
merc User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NH Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doubs--Thanks for the reply-This is very interesting-I am sure I will enjoy this gun. Aaron-- I don't figure how you think any of this can be "bad news" Maybe all you have are very highly prized collectables. I feel that any Luger someone is able to get is a collectable to them. Cheap-Expensive-Rare or shooter or rust bucket... --A German Luger is not you run of the mill--see it in every shop --on every shelf--hand gun. I count myself lucky to be able to own 2 Lugers. And if I told you what I paid for each-you would cry that you hadn't found them 1st. So--"BAD NEWS"--I don't think so-I got what I wanted and then some. By the way-I paid 295 for my 1st one (a DWM)and 300 for the Erfurt in this thread. Have a nice days Aaron Paul __________________ Merc Living without liberty is not living

10-27-2002, 12:01 AM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,673 Thanks: 773 Thanked 1,618 Times in 527 Posts	Merc, you have an East German rework of an Imperial Erfurt Luger originally issued in 1917. The "1920" was added about 1920 or 1921 to indicate that it belonged to the Weimar government. IOW, it isn't really a "date" but is a property mark. The markings on the front of the trigger guard means it's an Erfurt frame and the serial numbers on the frame and receiver match so it's likely that they are original to each other. The toggle train, however, is not original to the pistol as evidenced by the marked out "30" which should be "86" (last two digits of the serial number) if it was original to the pistol. The "753" under the barrel indicates that the barrel was made in July, 1953. The Crown/N is an East German proof. If you look in the chamber, you may see a visable line around the chamber about 2/3 of the way in. That means the barrel has been lined and you may also see the concentric circle at the muzzle where the liner was inserted. It's usually difficult to see because they did it quite nicely and then blued the muzzle along with the rest of the barrel. There are several interesting markings you mentioned that I'm unfamiliar with but possibly indicate to whom the pistol was issued while being used by East German police. The grips are clearly East German "VOPO" (People's Police) plastic grips and the magazine is WW2 military issue. At the moment the East german reworks are not collectable but in time that may change. In any event, you have what should be a nice mismatched shooter with quite a history behind it. A good gun to own....... congratulations.

10-27-2002, 12:21 AM	#3
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Doubs, that was a very gentle and subtle way to break the bad news. I applaud your choice of kind words. One small point, "VOPO" is an abbreviation for "Volks Polizei" and means "People's Police."

10-27-2002, 12:43 PM	#5
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Merc's questions and his description of his Luger indicate that he is a novice and was hoping he had acquired a very collectible pistol. Also, not one of his comments pertained to shooting his new pistol. His reference to a double date possibly being a rework shows that he has read or heard at least something about Lugers. My comment about "bad news" only refers to the fact that he does not have the collector's item he hoped he had. Your telling him he now has a nice mismatched "shooter" may mean absolutely nothing to him, as he may see himself as a budding collector, not an individual looking for a Luger to take to the range. Better you should have told him what to look for in his next purchase.

10-28-2002, 12:40 AM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,673 Thanks: 773 Thanked 1,618 Times in 527 Posts	Aaron, thanks for the kind words. I tried to explain as much as possible about the gun and with a chance to examine it, I could probably give more details. You may find this humorous but I'm well aware of the meaning of "VOPO" in German. However, after trying to spell "Polizei" a couple of times - incorrectly, BTW, - I gave up and simply translated it into English. You'll notice "People's Police" is in parenthises after the word "VOPO". Spelling in any language is not my strong suit. [img]smile.gif[/img]